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Contest Master
15 Dec 2005, 06:00
Which Modification should win this contest this month?

It's you, who decides!!!

TyleR
15 Dec 2005, 06:00
v3 Arcade - Games Arcade System for 3.5.1 Definately :)

theArchitect
15 Dec 2005, 06:08
ibProArcade - professional Arcade System. Definately. :)

Paul M
15 Dec 2005, 06:38
Gee, I wonder what will win this ......

michaelbenson
15 Dec 2005, 07:38
v3 Arcade for me, although all of these are installed (barring IBProArcade) on my forums!

Blam Forumz
15 Dec 2005, 08:04
v3Arcade definitely.

Andrew
15 Dec 2005, 08:07
/me votes for v3Arcade.

iSpanish
15 Dec 2005, 10:29
public HotM December(){
if myVote
{
system.out.println("v3 Arcade - Games Arcade System for 3.5.1");
}


v3 Arcade - Games Arcade System for 3.5.1 is the best :squareeyed:

DrewM
15 Dec 2005, 11:17
v3arcade!

waza
15 Dec 2005, 12:05
I also voted for v3arcade, defenitely the best, altough the other hacks are also good ones.

Mudvayne
15 Dec 2005, 14:52
I'm with ibProArcade - professional Arcade System.. thnx a lot to Mr Zeropage :D.. Its a all in one arcade management..

:S everyone voted for v3arcade.. Umm.. I didnt try v3arcade yet.. Coz I'm satisfied with ibproarcade

Jeramy
15 Dec 2005, 15:31
v3arcade without a doubt. I've tried both arcades and the new v3arcade is better.

GoTTi
15 Dec 2005, 17:09
ofcourse its v3arcade....why even vote?

steven s
15 Dec 2005, 18:53
It's tough since I only have Googlemap installed.
It is a nice addition to my site. I'm very pleased with it.
I don't see any reason to provide games on my site.
People are there because of the same interests, not to play games.

Floris
15 Dec 2005, 19:07
Put Adsense Banners in Your Archive

that's what i voted for. enjoy my +1

Snake
15 Dec 2005, 19:21
v3 Arcade fo sure! :D

BrandiDup
15 Dec 2005, 21:33
v3Arcade.

Although, I have had both arcades and enjoyed both very much. :) Since I currently have v3Arcade, that's the one that got my vote.

nexialys
15 Dec 2005, 22:12
/me would vote for his wife, but she is not in the list... so he votes for v3!

peterska2
16 Dec 2005, 00:08
/me votes for ibProArcade

Seeing as I've not got any of the others running and I like this one the best anyway it sorta makes sense to me. Are you confused yet?

Sooner95
16 Dec 2005, 02:27
Ibpro!

seany1
16 Dec 2005, 08:31
ibProArcade Definatly :D

Lottis
16 Dec 2005, 12:17
v3 Arcade - Games Arcade System for 3.5.1 Definately :)
*agree*

Jenta
16 Dec 2005, 13:34
Obviously ibProArcade. Way better than v3arcade.

dan35
16 Dec 2005, 18:42
I love both ibProArcade and v3arcade. But I guess without ibProArcade, v3arcade wouldn't be free. I pick ibProArcade ;)

waza
16 Dec 2005, 21:47
@dan35: v3arcade was free before ibproarcade was here, you know.

Xtrato
17 Dec 2005, 02:28
IPB Arcade; its way better then v3 my members like it better too

Billspaintball
19 Dec 2005, 00:28
Another one for V3 Arcade :)

Rocol
19 Dec 2005, 14:19
Definately the v3 Arcade - Games Arcade System for 3.5.1 :)

Dead End Society
19 Dec 2005, 15:21
I went IPB...my members have been in there non stop bashing their keyboards.

WhatChaMissin
19 Dec 2005, 15:50
ibProArcade +1

Allan
19 Dec 2005, 15:57
V3Arcade for me :)

gator777
19 Dec 2005, 21:29
I've tried both of the arcade hacks, and each has their own nice set of features and the way they display. V3Arcade has a clean, simple look, which I like, but is limited in features. I had to install additional features like the "Leader Board" for example. IBProArcade, on the other hand, is robust with many features already coded in the system. Users on my site seem to enjoy IBProArcade more, so I am leaving it in-place for the moment.

I would really like to thank all the coders for their hard work. We/us, site admins (coder-clueless), install your hacks for others to enjoy, so I guess we are the middleman.

Anyway, thanks coders, and please keep up the great hacks. :)

-Gator

Moparx
20 Dec 2005, 00:05
Another vote for v3 Arcade

Synth
20 Dec 2005, 00:18
ibPro fo' shizzle!!

nitro
20 Dec 2005, 09:13
Both arcades are obviously great they provide most fun for any forum than any other hack

I had to click the one thats currently live is all. MrZ has my +1 this time

Snake
20 Dec 2005, 10:35
I went IPB...my members have been in there non stop bashing their keyboards.

Whoa... a Clevelander! Finally! :D

admin0
20 Dec 2005, 14:13
/me voted for ibProArcade

Detomah
20 Dec 2005, 15:59
I've gone the way of v3arcade out of loyalty for the product that's added so much to my site since I first added the original version, although I did have to stop and think about it, as the quality of support to those that have needed it has been very thin in comparison to the other arcade and the other arcade does look and feel a lot more the finished product at the moment.

However, I also feel really sorry for the other great hacks on the list this month, they were never gonna stand any kind of chance when put up against these giants.

MrZeropage
20 Dec 2005, 16:34
I've gone the way of v3arcade out of loyalty for the product that's added so much to my site since I first added the original version, although I did have to stop and think about it, as the quality of support to those that have needed it has been very thin in comparison to the other arcade and the other arcade does look and feel a lot more the finished product at the moment.You are welcome to give ibProArcade its chance :)

nexialys
20 Dec 2005, 16:43
You are welcome to give ibProArcade its chance :)this is not a thread for giving support and comment about your own work MrZero, please ...

C_P
20 Dec 2005, 16:54
ibProArcade - professional Arcade System

---MAD---
20 Dec 2005, 17:28
v3 Arcade - Games Arcade System for 3.5.1 Definately!!

Paul M
20 Dec 2005, 22:00
You are welcome to give ibProArcade its chance :)I don't appreciate PM's trying to get my vote either.

Daniel
21 Dec 2005, 00:24
I don't appreciate PM's trying to get my vote either.
That would just make me not want to vote for it.

Jenta
21 Dec 2005, 00:33
That would just make me not want to vote for it.At least he doesnt charge for real support ;)

LEAD_WEIGHT
21 Dec 2005, 05:09
this is not a thread for giving support and comment about your own work MrZero, please ...
I don't appreciate PM's trying to get my vote either.
That would just make me not want to vote for it.

A Christmas Theme ' The Three Whiny Men ' :mad:

You would not know to vote if Mr.Zeropage had not pm you!

IBPROARCADE all the way!!

TyleR
21 Dec 2005, 05:11
I don't appreciate PM's trying to get my vote either.

That should be against the rules..should be a penalty for that kind of things..you dont PM people to vote for you on vB.com for BotM..why should this be any different?

LEAD_WEIGHT
21 Dec 2005, 05:32
That should be against the rules..should be a penalty for that kind of things..you dont PM people to vote for you on vB.com for BotM..why should this be any different?

Yes, but Mr.Zeropage did not ask to vote for his hack, only asking if you have voted.

If you received a pm, then pm back about it and not post it out in the open if you have so much of a problem with it. :rolleyes:

Paul M
21 Dec 2005, 05:37
A Christmas Theme ' The Three Whiny Men ' :mad:

You would not know to vote if Mr.Zeropage had not pm you!

IBPROARCADE all the way!!
Get a grip you muppet.

First of all I voted days ago, I don't need PM's to remind me.

Secondly, of course it was an attempt to get me (and others) to vote for his hack (which suddenly went from being about 20 votes behind, to being in the lead, coincidence, I don't think so.)

If you have nothing sensible to say then perhaps you should say nothing at all.

LEAD_WEIGHT
21 Dec 2005, 05:46
If you have nothing sensible to say then perhaps you should say nothing at all.

Read what you just posted, learn to keep it in your mind instead of whiny about it. If you want to post like this, then go over to v3arcade as they have so many post of whiny members crying about everything. :rolleyes:

Paul M
21 Dec 2005, 05:50
Read what you just posted, learn to keep it in your mind instead whiny about it. If you want to post like this, then go over to v3arcade as they have so many post of whiny members crying about everything. :rolleyes:ROFL - teenagers are so sooooo funny sometimes. :)

Rickie3
21 Dec 2005, 06:26
ibProArcade for sure here,nice and simple love it and so do my members AAA+,sad to see this thread getting ugly

nitro
21 Dec 2005, 09:17
Well as this is my first ever time i've voted on a HotM poll, I spent about 15 Minutes looking round the various forums to find the thread, I ended up going to the home page instead and jumping in from there. This was a few hours before a PM from MrZ. Nothing wrong with someone sending you a link in a PM for a HoTM poll, in fcat if it had of come earlier it would have saved me some time.

Its not like you were marched to the polls to vote his way, in fact it has as much chance of being counter productive by those who decided to go v3arcade and those who are going to take offence to such a PM.

All thats going to happen now is more talk about ibproarcade in the thread than voting, with those who moan about someone giving good info out while promoting themselves.
When MrZ appears on your doorstep and holds your mouse @ gunpoint for your vote then theres something to complain about.

MrZeropage
21 Dec 2005, 09:28
Just to clear things out:

I sent a reminder-PM with simple "did you vote already?" to exactly 17 Users
I picked them from my List of Beta-Testers, Developers and few from the ibPro-Thread itself.

So discussion should stop here, Paul_M is the only one complaining about it and thought it would be some kind of "vote for me please" but that is not what I did and do.

Be sure that this was just a notification to 17 people, not a single more. And I even received alot of "already placed my vote", so there is really nothing to worry about. I sent a statement and a List of Recipients to Erwin, he now has those 17 Names to see that they are not randomly picked but somehow involved in ibPro itself.
I just did an error and thought "Paul_M" was Beta-Tester, but in fact it was "Paul_Hollibone" - sorry for that! Most Testers and Developers are named in the ibPro-Thread and can be checked there.



Now this senseless discussion should end here, everybody can decide which way he votes and if he participates or not.

emtee
21 Dec 2005, 10:24
ibPro for me.

Paul M
21 Dec 2005, 10:26
So discussion should stop here, Paul_M is the only one complaining about it and thought it would be some kind of "vote for me please" but that is not what I did and do.As is my right, but I accept your explanation/apology that it was an error on your part. :)

MrZeropage
21 Dec 2005, 10:30
Ok, thanks - surely it is your right to complain, for you as not being involved in ibPro-Development it was Spam, no doubt. I am sorry - and glad you accept my apology for my error :)

Rickie3
21 Dec 2005, 10:38
in true christmas spirit guys well done a peaceful resolusion,no wonder i love this place

kewl1uk
21 Dec 2005, 18:56
ibProArcade most definitely because it's versatile and it works and all my members love it.

GoTTi
21 Dec 2005, 19:53
look @ ibpro pullin ahead.

i think i wanna change my vote, and i havent even installed the 3.5.x version...

im not happy with the content that has happend with the arcade. the support, the timely matter, some of the things going on there...its a big mess.

Rickie3
22 Dec 2005, 01:35
explanation please, why is ibProArcade not showing on the poll????

Jenta
22 Dec 2005, 01:53
well this sucks
wasted vote out of my own free will with no one even asking me to vote

sitka
22 Dec 2005, 02:32
explanation please, why is ibProArcade not showing on the poll????


yes i agreewhere ibproarcade go?

GoTTi
22 Dec 2005, 03:45
where is ibproarcade??????????

AshokForums.com
22 Dec 2005, 04:33
All votes of ibproarcade transferred to v3arcade and then ibproarcade was removed from the list! I feel this is what they have done.. Go through this thread you will know the reasons for the same :)

tamarian
22 Dec 2005, 04:55
That should be against the rules..should be a penalty for that kind of things..you dont PM people to vote for you on vB.com for BotM..why should this be any different?

BotM on vb.com has published rules, posted each time on the nomination thread.

Would be nice to have the same thing here, otherwise it's really subjective as to what's appropriate or not, and leaving it to the eyes of the beholder. It also gives an unfair advantage to commercial hacks, or hacks that have their own support site, and can campaign without using vb.org.

MrZeropage
22 Dec 2005, 06:51
I still did not find any rule for this "HotM"-Thing, either something saying that reminding the own people involved in Project-Development could not be reminded to vote.

There was just my fault I send one PM to Paul_M instead of Paul_Hollibone but that was not my intention. There where just 17 PMs, nothing more.


I am waiting for somebody to give me a Link where on vb.org I can find those Rules concerning HotM and PMs.

pspcrazy
22 Dec 2005, 06:53
BotM on vb.com has published rules, posted each time on the nomination thread.

Would be nice to have the same thing here, otherwise it's really subjective as to what's appropriate or not, and leaving it to the eyes of the beholder. It also gives an unfair advantage to commercial hacks, or hacks that have their own support site, and can campaign without using vb.org.

This is total bull, ibproarcade is what i voted for transferring them is dumb. You should have delted them so we could vote again. Vbseo sent us emails to vote for their hack, why cant zero do it for his. Vb arcade is not i voted for, please find a way to fix this ridiculous error. Seriously you cnat expect this to be a fair vote if yuo transfer it to vbarcade. Thats my comments

MrZeropage
22 Dec 2005, 06:55
Vbseo sent us emails to vote for their hack, why cant zero do it for his.Interesting ...

TyleR
22 Dec 2005, 07:04
This is total bull, ibproarcade is what i voted for transferring them is dumb. You should have delted them so we could vote again. Vbseo sent us emails to vote for their hack, why cant zero do it for his. Vb arcade is not i voted for, please find a way to fix this ridiculous error. Seriously you cnat expect this to be a fair vote if yuo transfer it to vbarcade. Thats my comments

not one vote was "transferred"..if votes were all given to v3Arcade, then it'd have well over 400 votes for them, which they don't.

Please do show proof of such an e-mail, as that would be something new, as I have all their products installed, have clicked install on the two free ones, and never recieved such an e-mail.

gothicuser
22 Dec 2005, 07:59
I voted for ibProArcade and see no logical reason in the previous posts for this to have been removed.
As it has been removed I am making a protest by vowing NEVER to vote for any hack-of-the-month again.
Purile, pathetic and definitely childish!

Rickie3
22 Dec 2005, 08:40
well this is just sick,the original poll had ibproarcade in it,i voted for it along with many other members here,then it is removed without any explanation at all,why have a voting poll in the first place?????this is not good for one's credibility is it????I speak for myself,the arcade war is not needed,i made my desicion as to what i wanted,i personally couldnt give a toss which is the better,each to their own view i say,hmmm signed dissapointed

Regs
22 Dec 2005, 08:51
Jeez, this is such a great "community" site, isn't it? Coders work hard and for their efforts, the staff here kicks them in the nuts and doesn't say anything to anyone for the reasons.

Great stuff.

If you're 12.

:rolleyes:

LEAD_WEIGHT
22 Dec 2005, 09:00
Why not delete this post since it has nothing to do with support other than spamming for votes?
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=854130&postcount=976
What's good for the goose...

Make sure to vote for this fully free arcade release (or other modification) for Hack of the Month (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=102998).

;)


* edit *
Plus I do not see any rules on HOTM on pm's? If you have rules then use a sticky incase of confusion.

pspcrazy
22 Dec 2005, 10:18
Woops, sorry vbseo, it wasnt you lol

Heres my email:

stonyarc has updated their hack:

VBStatExtended: advanced statistics for your board
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?threadid=99854

This is the update that the user gave:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All,

Just to let you know that I'm closing the new features list soon, so if you want new features added to the vbstatextended make sure you post them as soon as possible.

Good news about my other modification too: VBGooglemap has been nominated as hack of the month. Feel free to vote, if you like it (or if you like the other nominated hacks vote for them).

MrZeropage
22 Dec 2005, 10:33
so this got spread via eMail to (I guess) at least all the 90 people who clicked INSTALL on this Hack.

I just informed 17 people from my Test- and Development-Team and just gave the Link to the vote, saying nothing about what to vote for ect.


I would be ok to look for the votes and reduce those of the 17 votes which were done after my PM (most of them already voted before), but I still see no rule here about this HotM-Votes and also see others are doing much more promotion.
Just think of other ways like Messengers to spread the Link to a HotM-Voting ...



I ask to put back ibProArcade in the voting and I am sure there if you ask those who voted for ibPro they will agree and confirm that they got no single notice, PM or anything like that from me

LEAD_WEIGHT
22 Dec 2005, 10:34
This should have a thank-you, instead of posting in HOTM. As it seems to cause some bad feelings from some ppl.

Paul M
22 Dec 2005, 10:42
Removing it altogether seems a little harsh. Still, you may qualify again next month.

Rickie3
22 Dec 2005, 11:04
you may qualify again next month.what do you mean???it qualified this month it was in the original poll,it should not have been removed,no explanation nothing,this whole thread should be deleted, :speechless:

Scooterpig
22 Dec 2005, 11:12
I think the sad part about all of this so far is that there has been no explantion, comment or otherwise form any admin or mods from here about this, very disappointing..:(

rjordan
22 Dec 2005, 11:38
Why not delete this post since it has nothing to do with support other than spamming for votes?
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=854130&postcount=976



* edit *
Plus I do not see any rules on HOTM on pm's? If you have rules then use a sticky incase of confusion.
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?p=853461#post853461

Wow, LEAD, still going after me? All I did was take an example from the same post that is in ibProArcade's thread. Thus the "What's good for the goose" lead-in. I also noted that they should vote for that or "(or other modification)".

So is there an explaination for removing ibProArcade from the list? I cannot find anything regarding PMs either. Lack of staff response is disturbing. By all accounts, if it is against some rule somewhere, it is not posted predominantly enough for everyone to see and the PMs sent to his own people involved with testing, etc. should not count against the ibProArcade script.

Staff, can we get some sort of response to let us know you have some sort of justification behind this?

MrZeropage
22 Dec 2005, 11:57
This is the information I have:

Thanks for letting me know. You realise that you may be disqualified from the poll for doing that.

Just letting you know that sending PMs to members to get them to vote is considered "spam". So please don't do it again.

Thanks for understanding.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=102998

Thx ;)Hi there,

I did not spam around, I just picked exactly 17 people, all Beta-Testers from ibProArcade or some few guys I helped setup their Arcade in their forums, and sent them a simple "did you vote already?", nothing more.

Those Receivers where:
[...] removed the 17 names for their privacy, they can be found in the ibPro-Thread [...]

No more PM got sent, and of course I won't send any more!

It was just Paul_M who seems to be a fan of another Hack there who got angry about that reminder, I am sorry.

If I would have PMed all Testers, Developers ect. it would be loads more, but I won't :)


BTW: Got my last PM ?


Greets,
MrZeropage


and then I got

Hi Mr Zeropage,

I hope you understand but the staff have come to a decision to remove your hack from the HOTM poll...

While your intentions are not as questionable as previous people, rules are rules, and if we allow your hack to remain in the poll, others who have done similar things in the past may get upset if we allow your hack to continue to be a part of the poll...

This is also to deter future HOTM hack authors from thinking that just politely reminding or asking their friends to vote in the HOTM poll for them is allowed...

If you wish to contest this, please take it up with the Administration here, but like I said the staff have decided that it should be removed...

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :ermm:

Chris



I asked for any Link to vb.org where I can find that information that any PM, Reminder ect. is forbidden, but got no answer yet.
As stated before other Hack-Authors even emailed around and nothing happened, and you should think about all the other ways to notify people of such a vote: messenger, mail, pm, other forums, chats ect.


Just remember what if now PMs or anything else appear to inform v3arcade-users about the HotM-Vote, would that also remove this Hack ?
I think this is ridiculous, everybody should know on his own what to vote for, the only thing I agree that any kind of Spam has to be kept out of vb.org, but as long nobody is spamming around it should be ok ...



I am now waiting for the Link to the Rule where it says that those PMs for HotM-Votes are forbidden. If there is none, I (and even some more users here I think) ask the Team for the base of their decision ...

rjordan
22 Dec 2005, 12:06
Just remember what if now PMs or anything else appear to inform v3arcade-users about the HotM-Vote, would that also remove this Hack ?
I think this is ridiculous, everybody should know on his own what to vote for, the only thing I agree that any kind of Spam has to be kept out of vb.org, but as long nobody is spamming around it should be ok ...
And not just the arcades, but I would agree that ANY modification that has had unsolicited PMs or e-mails sent should be disqualified. Testers knew they were getting PMs and e-mails. This should not count against them. People make mistakes and having mistyped one username was an honest mistake it seems. Public posts have had comments like "Be sure to vote" and "I voted" throughout the history of Hack of the Month. If we were to disqualify because of this, then that would cancel every winner (I believe) out there.

MrZeropage
22 Dec 2005, 12:13
If we were to disqualify because of this, then that would cancel every winner (I believe) out there.100% agree !

Oblivion Knight
22 Dec 2005, 12:18
I am now waiting for the Link to the Rule where it says that those PMs for HotM-Votes are forbidden. If there is none, I (and even some more users here I think) ask the Team for the base of their decision ...You know, now that I've gone looking for one.. I can't find one.

Hmm.. :speechless:

Rickie3
22 Dec 2005, 12:22
do you honestly think MrZeropage was vote hunting??????i dont think so,if this was the case dont you think he would have Pm the 380 odd members that downloaded his hack????? asking hey vote for me,this is unbelievable

MissKalunji
22 Dec 2005, 12:30
so this got spread via eMail to (I guess) at least all the 90 people who clicked INSTALL on this Hack.

I just informed 17 people from my Test- and Development-Team and just gave the Link to the vote, saying nothing about what to vote for ect.


I would be ok to look for the votes and reduce those of the 17 votes which were done after my PM (most of them already voted before), but I still see no rule here about this HotM-Votes and also see others are doing much more promotion.
Just think of other ways like Messengers to spread the Link to a HotM-Voting ...



I ask to put back ibProArcade in the voting and I am sure there if you ask those who voted for ibPro they will agree and confirm that they got no single notice, PM or anything like that from me
sucks i didnt get no pm :( and i was a beta tester

ah well Dear :) your hack still the best....no matter what happens :) you still got 380 install!

Jenta
22 Dec 2005, 13:09
Well I guess googlemap needs to be disqualified also. How about hacks with 3rd party support sites? How do we know what goes on there? Especially in the private forums.

I think this decision should be reversed. We await staff comment.

Sooner95
22 Dec 2005, 13:55
Yea, I beta tested it, and didn't get a PM either. So to say he was spamming is ridiculous.

Here's to hoping the Staff here sorts this out correctly.

MrZeropage
22 Dec 2005, 14:05
I think this decision should be reversed. We await staff comment.Even if they now reverse, there are currently 14 votes that got added to v3arcade while there was no choice for ibProArcade - nobody knows how many of that 14 would have voted for ibPro, so the whole Voting is somehow unfair now anyway

I should be reset to the point it was before deletion (ibProArcade was 20 votes ahead) or should be deleted at all, that is what I think is fair...



But I think the staff will think about all that ;)



@Sooner95, MissKalunji and other Testers:
As I told before I even did not sent that PM to all Testers, just to few ...



How about hacks with 3rd party support sites? How do we know what goes on there? Especially in the private forums.Yes, never thought about that - they even can promote their product in small, seperate community while I do only have a single Thread here on vb.org with the Hack itself :surprised:

Chris M
22 Dec 2005, 14:33
A "lack of staff response" would mostly be due to the fact that staff are either a.) asleep at the time you posted or b.) unable to comment due to the fact that it's Christmas...

As for a link to the HoTM rules, I believe there was one somewhere but I cannot find the link at this time; However it is a rule that people should be familiar with due to the removal of a few hacks this year for breaking the same rule...

And, regardless of this, there is also the main site rule, the relevant part bolded:
1.3 No "Spamming": Please do not double post or cross-post the same message in multiple forums. You will not mass-PM or mass-email multiple members of this site the same message. You will not post for the sake of increasing your post count or hack count.
I count 17 people as being Mass-PM...

As for rumours of "vote transferring", thats rubbish...

Chris

MrZeropage
22 Dec 2005, 14:47
And, regardless of this, there is also the main site rule, the relevant part bolded:1.3 No "Spamming": Please do not double post or cross-post the same message in multiple forums. You will not mass-PM or mass-email multiple members of this site the same message. You will not post for the sake of increasing your post count or hack count.
Then I should be warned/banned for doing that, but not remove my Hack from this poll ;)

Anyway, this is somehow ridiculous, as stated before other Hacks got promoted via Email and nothing happened, so "due to the removal of a few hacks this year for breaking the same rule" seems not to work everytime.

I even have no chance, in some situations I have to PM the same text to multiple users, like I did when spreading the Link to a new Test-Version to all Beta-Testers during Develoment of ibProArcade ...


I am looking forward to get this answered:As for a link to the HoTM rules, I believe there was one somewhere but I cannot find the link at this timeas I believe there really is no such rule.


It was no spamming, no mass-PM or anything like that for getting any votes !
I even did and do more PMs when a new Beta-Version got released ect.



I think this decision is not good for community and not good for me either, I am not feeling well this way in this community and ready to grab my cases :(

Chris M
22 Dec 2005, 15:01
What possible reasoning would the staff have to remove your hack if such a rule was not in place?

We don't have personal vendetta's here - We came to a decision between us, and I removed it, mostly because I have no mixed feelings over which arcade hack to use - I use neither, because I don't believe they are of any real use to me or any of my sites...

Chris

AshokForums.com
22 Dec 2005, 15:26
This whole episode is really bad for Vb.org

this is my suggestion.. I feel this is the best thing to do.. Why not reset the votes and let the voters re vote?

It was really very harsh on ibProarcade and zero page (although i love and prefer v3arcade)

I myself have received 2 or 3 mails from Googlemap hack owner to visit and vote.. Isnt that spamming?

Whatever happ is really sad

GoTTi
22 Dec 2005, 15:29
man just forget this hotm junk. u get nothing from it anyways, and we all know who is really winning and who will win so it doesnt matter.

Regs
22 Dec 2005, 16:47
Someone needs to have a muzzle put on him because blaming others for not knowing a rule that even he can't produce is assinine.

And sadly, typical.

Kacela
22 Dec 2005, 17:12
What possible reasoning would the staff have to remove your hack if such a rule was not in place?

We don't have personal vendetta's here - We came to a decision between us, and I removed it, mostly because I have no mixed feelings over which arcade hack to use - I use neither, because I don't believe they are of any real use to me or any of my sites...

ChrisWhat you've posted is total BS until you produce this "rule", and prove it was in place at the start of this poll. Emotions such as your "mixed feelings" should not come into play - making such a decision based on emotions IS showing that you are biased... all future votes will be tainted if you do this.

GoTTi
22 Dec 2005, 17:17
its over with already. this month is dead. the hotm for dec is corrupted and there is no point in even continuing with this argument. they cant produce anything. no rules. no mumbo jumbo blablabla. v3arcade was getting beat out and thats that. i swithced my vote and never got a PM.

its all horse shizzit and shouldnt have happend. who cares if he asks people to vote for him on the hotm. if they use his hack why the hell shouldnt they vote for him?

grow up people.

dont get anything but a label on the hack for the hotm anyways so whats the big deal? no money..no advertising spots, no perks

Jenta
22 Dec 2005, 17:27
I'm removing my one measly hack from here. I'll release it on another website.

MissKalunji
22 Dec 2005, 17:36
why is Hotm of the month is so important to you people? ppl being grateful giving donation isnt that the real reward? come one lets just forget about it....and lets enjoy each other's work :)

how about that?

The Geek
22 Dec 2005, 17:54
hehe - this brings back memories :)

HotM is important to coders here because it is the only type of reward they get. Getting nominated and having a chance to win is a a cool kudos that justifies a lot of the thankless hours of producing free work for others (lord knows the donations button is little more than a pretty image).

In the grand scheme of things - it really shouldn't matter, however it does matter to people and it should be treated as such.

In defense of Chris, I too remember rules in regards to spamming for votes. However saying that:
1- Yes, it should be posted in the first post of the HotM.
2- I think its a dumb rule anyway. Who cares if everyone gets a heads up about it? They can make up their own mind which is best. Its like running for president but not being able to tell anyone :P

Anyhooo. Its a shame another HotM gets screwed. Not just for the one that was removed - but also for the others still in the race. It kind of tarnishes any kind of win - justified or not.

Maybe adopting a BotM approach would be best: Have a month where people nominate HotM. I think doing it strictly on installs is a bit pants anyway.

Anyhooo. Condolences to whoever was removed from the post (been there man ;) ) and condolences to those left in it. O, and condolences to the staff :)

kewl1uk
22 Dec 2005, 18:05
Well, there ya go: Yet more bias towards V3Arcade at the expense of ibProArcade. Quite frankly, I'm not surprised it happened because I expected it to happen. Recent history on vb.org shows that it would happen. How can anyone possibly be surprised by it. Certainly not me! ibPro was beating V3Arcade and so ibProArcade was removed. V3Arcade win this poll. But morally ibPro has won hands down and this poll is not representative of the voting of vb.orgs membership!

Chris M
22 Dec 2005, 18:13
Regardless of everyone's personal feelings here about how "wrong" it is, a hack of tamarian's a few months ago was removed for breaking this rule, and now, to be fair to those previously denied HOTM enrolement, the same must be done to Mr Zeropage, and any future rule breakers...

There is no conspiracy towards v3arcade - To my knowledge, John hasn't broken this rule...

Mr Zeropage, deliberately or not, has broken it...

You are free to report any misconduct by John if you feel it is spam, or against the rules...

Chris

kewl1uk
22 Dec 2005, 18:21
Regardless of everyone's personal feelings here about how "wrong" it is, a hack of tamarian's a few months ago was removed for breaking this rule, and now, to be fair to those previously denied HOTM enrolement, the same must be done to Mr Zeropage, and any future rule breakers...

There is no conspiracy towards v3arcade - To my knowledge, John hasn't broken this rule...

Mr Zeropage, deliberately or not, has broken it...

You are free to report any misconduct by John if you feel it is spam, or against the rules...

Chris

Still leaves 200+ vb.org members who were not mass PMed who voted for ibProArcade whose votes were eliminated from this poll. As I said, this poll is not representative of the membership of vb.org!

Chris M
22 Dec 2005, 18:29
Of course it is representative of vB.org - If those 200+ members who voted for ibPro wish to change their vote in this poll, they are free to PM me and give me an alternative to add a vote number for...

Just because it was removed does not mean it isn't representative; People who may have voted for tamarian's hack that was removed didn't moan about it to this extent and stop their virtual feet...

I can honestly tell you right now that if it wasJohn and the hack v3arcade that had broken the rules you would not be too displeased would you?

Again, this is nothing against Mr Zeropage or any kind of conspiracy - But what's the phrase? Ignorance is not an excuse? Just as others have found out before...

Chris

EricaJoy
22 Dec 2005, 18:30
/me would have voted for ibProArcade

instead i voted for Adsense banners in the archive. After reading the overall feedback about v3 Arcade in its thread, it winning hack of the month would be a bit misleading to me. I submit that there be some sort of footnote added to this months vote about the removal of ibProArcade so that people are aware of what happened.

kewl1uk
22 Dec 2005, 18:36
Of course it is representative of vB.org - If those 200+ members who voted for ibPro wish to change their vote in this poll, they are free to PM me and give me an alternative to add a vote number for...

Just because it was removed does not mean it isn't representative; People who may have voted for tamarian's hack that was removed didn't moan about it to this extent and stop their virtual feet...

I can honestly tell you right now that if it wasJohn and the hack v3arcade that had broken the rules you would not be too displeased would you?

Again, this is nothing against Mr Zeropage or any kind of conspiracy - But what's the phrase? Ignorance is not an excuse? Just as others have found out before...

Chris


Personally, I don't want to change my vote. I voted for ibProArcade and as far as I'm concerned my vote stands. HotM for december is dead and as has already been previously posted this affair will detract from the winner probably to the extent that the declared winner will not be regarded as the true winner!

btw I too am waiting for the link to the HotM rule.

This is my last on this subject. I'm just too disgusted to post any more about it!

Oblivion Knight
22 Dec 2005, 19:01
V3Arcade win this poll. But morally ibPro has won hands down and this poll is not representative of the voting of vb.orgs membership!I wouldn't say 20 votes ahead was "hands down", but you know.. I don't care.

I don't see why v3arcade is even being brought in to reasoning behind ibProArcade's removal and the like, neither me nor John had any idea until someone mentioned it in the support thread.

Brad
22 Dec 2005, 19:43
Starting next month there will be a set of rules and guidelines sent to every hack author in the poll via PM, this will be listed in the thread, and on the rules page as well. Currently there is no rule on this, but as Chris said hacks have been removed or not allowed in the poll before due to similar situations.

Also lets get one thing in the clear, this is not a conspiracy to ensure v3arcade wins this poll. I assure you we have better things to do then rigging HOTM polls and if anyone on the staff ever did such a thing they would be dismissed.

Regs
22 Dec 2005, 19:47
Currently there is no rule on thisAre you 100% sure because that's not what someone else has said in here and that same person placed blame directly on the coder here.

Has an apology been sent yet to the coder?

MrZeropage
22 Dec 2005, 19:49
What possible reasoning would the staff have to remove your hack if such a rule was not in place?Only thing left is my wish to see where this rule is ... By doing a decision on a rule somebody should know where it is ;)



Has an apology been sent yet to the coder?Nope

kewl1uk
22 Dec 2005, 19:53
Starting next month there will be a set of rules and guidelines sent to every hack author in the poll via PM, this will be listed in the thread, and on the rules page as well. Currently there is no rule on this, but as Chris said hacks have been removed or not allowed in the poll before due to similar situations.

Also lets get one thing in the clear, this is not a conspiracy to ensure v3arcade wins this poll. I assure you we have better things to do then rigging HOTM polls and if anyone on the staff ever did such a thing they would be dismissed.

There is no rule against PMing members to gain support for HotM but hacks have been removed for flouting it. Hmm, ok.

Regardless of whether this is a conspiracy to ensure v3arcade wins this poll or not, that's the way it looks to all and sundry I think.

Brad
22 Dec 2005, 19:55
There was a 'rule', it was 'unwritten' and until this happened we always solved these issues before the public had a chance to see them. As I said before next month a clear set of guidelines will be sent to everyone to make sure this doesn't happen again.

kewl1uk
22 Dec 2005, 20:01
There was a 'rule', it was 'unwritten' and until this happened we always solved these issues before the public had a chance to see them. As I said before next month a clear set of guidelines will be sent to everyone to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Oh come on. This is getting more ridiculous by the minute. If a rule is unwritten how is everyone expected to know about it? There was no rule against PMing members to gain support for HotM, MrZeroPage didn't break the rule which didn't exist, and this whole affair sucks. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

Jenta
22 Dec 2005, 20:09
I'm speechless really. All I can say is the staff made a very poor decision here and no amount of complaining will make them reverse it.

It's a sad sad day when a hack that requires you to pay $60 to get real support wins HOTM. That should be a bigger issue than 17 pms.

Chris M
22 Dec 2005, 20:11
It's 'unwritten' because nobody took the time to write it up for public viewing evidently - I believed it was somewhere but upon further investigation it turns out that if there was, it has since been removed...

tamarian broke the rule a couple of months ago, and we took similar action - As for what is going on with the vBgooglemap hack, I don't know - Chances are that will be chased up when the Administration gets around to it...

You call pull apart statements by not reading them and picking out words taken out of context all you like; The staff decided, it is a rule, and the mistake of it not being plastered all over anything remotely to do with HOTM will be rectified...

Chris

GoTTi
22 Dec 2005, 20:12
what ever its over with. we know who is winning this poll and who will win.

kewl1uk
22 Dec 2005, 20:15
I'm speechless really. All I can say is the staff made a very poor decision here and no amount of complaining will make them reverse it.

It's a sad sad day when a hack that requires you to pay $60 to get real support wins HOTM. That should be a bigger issue than 17 pms.

Agreed. Quite frankly, if the "Staff" are going to knobble the voting like this I personally can't see any reason why I should vote in future polls. Obviously it's the "Staff" who decides who wins!

Chris M
22 Dec 2005, 20:17
Ok guys - Take a few deep breaths, go get a stress ball and think before you make wild accusations...

I'll repeat what I have said earlier so you can understand this:

This hack was removed to make it fair for everyone who has ever been subject to this rule, and as a reminder against doing it to those thinking of doing so in the future

This has nothing to do with any personal or professional agendas...

Chris

TyleR
22 Dec 2005, 20:18
Jesus people, Stop the fraking crying already..the Admin part of the vB.org team has spoken on this issue, aswell as part of the moderation team..if you dont like their decision, oh well, there's no prize in aruging here..most it can get you is a ban here and on vb.com if you continue and it gets out of hand.

Just drop the whole sherade, and know who you voted for. It's no matter at this point, as staff already said they aren't re-instating the hack.

kewl1uk
22 Dec 2005, 20:19
Ok guys - Take a few deep breaths, go get a stress ball and think before you make wild accusations...

I'll repeat what I have said earlier so you can understand this:

This hack was removed to make it fair for everyone who has ever been subject to this rule, and as a reminder against doing it to those thinking of doing so in the future

This has nothing to do with any personal or professional agendas...

Chris

But there was no such rule! Ok you're not going to put it right, period!

Chris M
22 Dec 2005, 20:25
Yes there is such a rule, otherwise tamarian's hack would still be in the HOTM poll it got removed from for doing a very similar thing...

However, I can argue with you until I'm blue in the face, and you with I...

You are not going to change your view evidently, and nor am I going to change mine - Let's just agree to disagree...

Chris

tamarian
22 Dec 2005, 20:26
Regardless of everyone's personal feelings here about how "wrong" it is, a hack of tamarian's a few months ago was removed for breaking this rule, and now, to be fair to those previously denied HOTM enrolement, the same must be done to Mr Zeropage, and any future rule breakers...


Not the same situation as mine was not even nominated, but I really don't mind. It was unfair then, and still unfair now, until some rules are listed, instead of being selective as to which rules to apply, and to whom.

Nominations and winning are not a big deal, but since it's there, it's best to have some rules that apply to everyone equally.

kewl1uk
22 Dec 2005, 20:31
Yes there is such a rule, otherwise tamarian's hack would still be in the HOTM poll it got removed from for doing a very similar thing...

The "rule" only existed in the "Staff" minds and was not written down so no-one knew about it. Possibly tamarian has a justified gripe to pursue.

You are not going to change your view evidently, and nor am I going to change mine - Let's just agree to disagree...

I'm not going to change my view because I know what is right and what is wrong. And removing ibProArcade from this poll when it was an almost certain winner is most definitely wrong. But you're "Staff" and I'm not and so you can do what you like and I can't. But your credibility is lost and mine isn't. Bye bye.

Chris M
22 Dec 2005, 20:31
Not the same situation as mine was not even nominated, but I really don't mind. It was unfair then, and still unfair now, until some rules are listed, instead of being selective as to which rules to apply, and to whom.

Nominations and winning are not a big deal, but since it's there, it's best to have some rules that apply to everyone equally.

Well regardless, what is fair is having one stance for everyone, and that is exactly what he have had...

We're going to rectify the situation for any future discrepancies by making sure the rules pretty much cannot be missed...

Chris

Brad
22 Dec 2005, 20:36
The "rule" only existed in the "Staff" minds and was not written down so no-one knew about it. Possibly tamarian has a justified gripe to pursue.



I'm not going to change my view because I know what is right and what is wrong. And removing ibProArcade from this poll when it was an almost certain winner is most definitely wrong. But you're "Staff" and I'm not and so you can do what you like and I can't. But your credibility is lost and mine isn't. Bye bye.

This rule has been applied to everyone that has been reported for doing such things. Once again we don't pick on certain members just because we feel like it. You are free to throw that around all you want, but it doesn't make it true.

If the author wanted (and if he still wants to) he can contact me via private message and I will attempt to get this solved in private. The only reason I've even posted in public on the topic is the fact that this is getting out of control.

If you'd prefer to go above me, then Wayne (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/member.php?u=5843) is the man to talk to.

tamarian
22 Dec 2005, 20:37
We're going to rectify the situation for any future discrepancies by making sure the rules pretty much cannot be missed...

I think that should do it. Sort of like the BotM template, either listing the rules or linking to them.

Telling members to click install if they ask for support should be fine, IMHO. But if it isn't, then a simple and clear statemnt in the rules should help.

TyleR
22 Dec 2005, 20:38
And removing ibProArcade from this poll when it was an almost certain winner is most definitely wrong.

20 votes ahead, and about 26 days left in the poll makes it a certain winner? Lol..

MrZeropage
22 Dec 2005, 20:45
Please, everybody - stop talking about it, Chris and the Staff made their decision, and we have to accept it. There is no way to change that.

Only thing I personally put critics on is that:nobody took the time to write it up for public viewing evidently - I believed it was somewhere but upon further investigation it turns out that if there was, it has since been removed...and the first response about those 17 PM was a PM I got from Erwin tellingJust letting you know that sending PMs to members to get them to vote is considered "spam". So please don't do it again.

Thanks for understanding.There was no taste of breaking any HotM-Rule or something like that, the matter just was "Spam".

I myself answered this and explained that it was no Spam as I only sent this information to those 17 people from "my Team"...




But anyway, that's the way life goes, and so we all have to accept.



Congratulations to John and v3arcade :)



@Brad:
I will PM you to clear everything out, no problem :)

kewl1uk
22 Dec 2005, 20:47
20 votes ahead, and about 26 days left in the poll makes it a certain winner? Lol..

Well, who knows? Since ibProArcade has been removed from this poll we'll never know who the real winner would have been. As it is, V3Arcade looks to be the winner albeit it due to not-very-divine intervention.

simon.
22 Dec 2005, 20:55
V3Arcade is to win! :D YAY!

Oblivion Knight
22 Dec 2005, 21:06
It's a sad sad day when a hack that requires you to pay $60 to get real support wins HOTM. That should be a bigger issue than 17 pms.ROFL! :D

Hardly, admitedly support for v3arcade right now is pretty bad. Premium or not.

MrZeropage
22 Dec 2005, 21:11
Well, in fact there is better/any support for those who paid:If you're a branding free user, a beta of 1.0.2.1 is now available.

This is primarily a bugfix for those having problems with initial installation, but also includes a couple of other fixes and "stuff". (Source of this quote (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=854042&postcount=974))

;)



Anyway, this thread should go back to a HotM-Voting-Thread without discussions ...

KimmiKat
22 Dec 2005, 21:20
Ditto. :) My co-admin is switching them over to ibProArcade.

* princessfrozen would have voted for ibProArcade

kewl1uk
22 Dec 2005, 21:33
Well, in fact there is better/any support for those who paid:(Source of this quote (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=854042&postcount=974))

Isn't that post in the V3Arcade thread flouting the board rules:

2) Paid hack, scripts or commercial addons can be discussed in vbulletin.org without being promoted. However, authors of the commercial hack or addon cannot start threads discussing their own products or promote it in anyway in vb.org posts. If a commercial hack discussion thread turns into a promotional thread, it will be closed or deleted. If authors are found using another account or encouraging a friend account to circumvent this rule, all accounts involved will be banned.

I wonder what would happen if any other hack author tried to charge $60 for a new bug fixed version of their hack? Anyway, back to the HotM for December. I wonder which hack will win? :)

Chris M
22 Dec 2005, 21:41
If you are unhappy with that post, report it...

The least that will happen is we watch the thread more closely...

Chris

nitro
22 Dec 2005, 22:09
Thing is this poll now has no winner, there is no HotM for December 2005. No one can call a win by default a real win especially when the other main competitor was taken out for an unwritten rule. Its as much a loss by whoever wins as the disqualified hack.

I voted prior to any PM, I based my decision on the hacks I was using and those installed hacks have been down to my personal choice. MrZ did not even know if I had switched to v3arcade, this was indeed a possibility.

I dont consider a 17 user PM to developers and testers of a product, a link to a poll with "have you voted yet ?" as any kind of rule breaking as ther was no mention of what hack to vote for. If in the past other polls have had items removed for the exact same broken rule, then it was high time a set of rules was in place aftre the second occurance. The decision in this is bad imo. Oh well no point coming back to this thread now but to read further.

Zachery
22 Dec 2005, 22:46
If you guys have a serious problem with anything, please contact Wayne or Brad in private about this matter.

rjordan
22 Dec 2005, 23:10
From everyone's coments here, would vb.org consider calling December HotM a dead issue with no winner? If so, would you be willing to allow all entries another run in January?

Xplorer4x4
22 Dec 2005, 23:17
I have not heard any major objections, if any at all of letting IPBProArcade back into this. I swear i saw a comment mentioning that v3Arcade made note of this in an update email. Perhaps I am mistaken and if so my apoligies.

Seeing as there are no "written" rules, these "rules" are nothing more then he said/she said Although not fair to previous disqualified particpants, this is a pretty contraverseal issue and untill IPBProArcade has been reinstated the rants are just going to conintue. I say let IPB back in this and reset the polls.

I have nothing more to say.

EricaJoy
23 Dec 2005, 00:02
Wow. Simply wow. After reading this thread, I have to seriously question the decision making process at vb.org. How does one get removed from a contest for breaking a rule that nobody knew about but the staff?

The line of reasoning that tamarian got removed from a contest for the same thing is meaningless. Implying that the psuedo-rule should be known across the board because the tamarian event occured is ridiculous. I personally don't pay any attention to HoTM unless a hack I have installed or plan to install is involved so you can't simply assume that every board member knows about the goings on about a HoTM they weren't involved in.

I was a little miffed about the removal of ibProArcade when I first read the thread but I figured, okay, rule broken, the removal is justified. However now that I know that the rule doesn't exist (matters not if the staff knew it, if the rule wasn't written and accessible by contestants, it doesn't exist) I wholeheartedly disagree with the removal of ibProArcade from this months poll. Either put them back in the running or nullify the entire December HoTM contest.

/me tosses 2 pennies and leaves . *smh*

nexialys
23 Dec 2005, 00:41
From everyone's coments here, would vb.org consider calling December HotM a dead issue with no winner? If so, would you be willing to allow all entries another run in January?i'm with rjordan with that...

i think that this flaming have gone too far, and this HotM thing is now out because there is now a serious lack of support/answers from the staff...

i really think that the vb.org guys need to interact a lot more when some decisions like that are taken... that would be a simple proof of Real Public Relations...

EDIT: oh, and i think of this... if vb.org guys are too occupied or absent for the season, maybe a GOOD announcement is welcome here... because i think they deserve their vacations, but actually we're not aware of any, so a lot of other guys will continue arguying with no echoes.

Paul M
23 Dec 2005, 01:23
From everyone's coments here, would vb.org consider calling December HotM a dead issue with no winner? If so, would you be willing to allow all entries another run in January?That's not fair to the rest of the December participant's, or those that will be in January's.

dan35
23 Dec 2005, 01:39
HotM looks dead to me!

nitro
23 Dec 2005, 01:45
That's not fair to the rest of the December participant's, or those that will be in January's.

Not entirely true on the December side, seems the runners in it was either arcade, if one of them hadnt existed it would have been as it is now (but with a lot more votes on the one most likley), as I pointed out earlier when one of the main runners is removed for a breach of an unwritten rule the other which will likey win now cannot consider the win a victory as it has no fair competition, Besides which I remember the v3arcade for v3 which romped home last time and was pimped rotten, a whole lot more than a PM to a select few of the testers and developers. If i remeber correctly it was pimped on the v3arcade forums, it was pimped in its thread and I am sure I got a v3arcade.com email pimping it aswell. I really see nothing wrong with a single mail/pm as a reminder theres a HotM comp, spam to me would be something like one a day on the same subject.

The January side yes it would be quite unfair to block in this months into next. The end result is there is no Dec 2005 HotM as there cannot be any fair or reasonable outcome now, whatever is permitted to continue.

Snyper
23 Dec 2005, 02:39
ibProArcade is my Favorite.
More Games and no Problems with 3.5.2

Please update your Poll and add IbPA to vote .

Greets:nervous:

LEAD_WEIGHT
23 Dec 2005, 05:45
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?p=853461#post853461

Wow, LEAD, still going after me? All I did was take an example from the same post that is in ibProArcade's thread. Thus the "What's good for the goose" lead-in. I also noted that they should vote for that or "(or other modification)".

So is there an explaination for removing ibProArcade from the list? I cannot find anything regarding PMs either. Lack of staff response is disturbing. By all accounts, if it is against some rule somewhere, it is not posted predominantly enough for everyone to see and the PMs sent to his own people involved with testing, etc. should not count against the ibProArcade script.

Staff, can we get some sort of response to let us know you have some sort of justification behind this?

I went and took a look at ibProarcade, it is not saying to vote for ibproarcade for HOTM, only the best free arcade for December HOTH. In your post it shows to vote for v3arcade and the other's, but you can only vote for one and not the other's ;).

*edit
Anymore unwritten rule's the members here should know about, I hate to see this go on & on. :devious:

rjordan
23 Dec 2005, 12:41
From ibPro post:
Make sure to vote for this fully free version of an arcade for Hack of the Month (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=102998).Note how it says vote for this version of arcade.


From v3 post:
Make sure to vote for this fully free arcade release (or other modification) for Hack of the Month (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=102998).Note how it says this version of arcade or (not and) other modification.


I do agree, however, that the unpublished rules should be published. They said they are going to be doing this in the future. I also agree that it would be unfair to January nominees, etc. as posted above, but at the same time I think it unfair that ibPro got knocked out. Those that voted for ibPro might have voted for one of the other modifications and may have given v3 a run, but how will we know now?

I guess vB.org has made their final decision. No sense in continuing this.

Xplorer4x4
23 Dec 2005, 13:12
Since the rules are unpublished and not known to the general public, isn't it possible that the other hacks have broken one of these "rules" as well?

kewl1uk
23 Dec 2005, 15:47
Those that voted for ibPro might have voted for one of the other modifications and may have given v3 a run, but how will we know now?


Good point. Personally, I would never have voted for V3Arcade and if ibProarcade had not been nominated I would have voted for adsense banners in the archive!

KimmiKat
23 Dec 2005, 17:24
I agree. This month's HotM should be stricken, and a fresh start in Janurary. Or pull v3Arcade from the poll and let the other 3 be voted on and have special poll just for the arcade hacks.

i'm with rjordan with that...

i think that this flaming have gone too far, and this HotM thing is now out because there is now a serious lack of support/answers from the staff...

i really think that the vb.org guys need to interact a lot more when some decisions like that are taken... that would be a simple proof of Real Public Relations...

EDIT: oh, and i think of this... if vb.org guys are too occupied or absent for the season, maybe a GOOD announcement is welcome here... because i think they deserve their vacations, but actually we're not aware of any, so a lot of other guys will continue arguying with no echoes.

Brad
23 Dec 2005, 20:10
I agree. This month's HotM should be stricken, and a fresh start in Janurary. Or pull v3Arcade from the poll and let the other 3 be voted on and have special poll just for the arcade hacks.

This would not be fair to the author of v3arcade.

I need to also point out that my use of the phrase "Unwritten rule" was not correct. The rule does exist and has been viewable by the public for a long time now:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/rules.php?

1.3 No "Spamming": Please do not double post or cross-post the same message in multiple forums. You will not mass-PM or mass-email multiple members of this site the same message. You will not post for the sake of increasing your post count or hack count.

The actions that would be taken (removal from the HOTM poll) was not something the public was aware of. As I've said before we will make sure everyone is aware of that next month.

Yes other hack authors have been removed from the poll (some before it was even posted) due to the same thing. Again we don't pick on certain people while letting others slide for the same thing.

Regs
23 Dec 2005, 20:38
You will not mass-PM or mass-email multiple members of this site the same message.You should remove the ability to PM more than one user then on this site. The whole feature is to send the same message to more than one member :rolleyes:

In any event, you still apparently refuse to apologise to the coder in question for shooting first and asking questions later. He's explained several times whom the PMs were sent to.

Brad
23 Dec 2005, 20:40
I am aware of the authors actions and I am speaking to him in private.

GoTTi
23 Dec 2005, 20:44
Booorrrrrrriiinnnnnnggggggg

Jenta
23 Dec 2005, 21:41
You will not mass-PM or mass-email multiple members of this site the same message
There's a setting in your admincp under usergroups to set a maximum number of recipients you know. Why even have that rule?

pspcrazy
23 Dec 2005, 21:45
Booorrrrrrriiinnnnnnggggggg

Look brad, seriously . This hotm is corrupted. If my hack was in here i personally wouldnt want to win. It would be a i won because the better hack got removed, or i won in a totally unfair vote. Literally ibproarcade was unwarned. From what i have experienced on my forums, when you want to kick some one or warn him you either warn him using infernos hack OR you pm him a warning to stop. Now youll say: but what if he has already pmed it to all his hacks installers? Well heres the answer to that , its NOT his fault if he did. Theres NO rule saying he cant. Mabye tamarians hack got removed and mabye he KNEW that rule. But the maker of this arcade didnt. That makes this a curropt poll. From what im reading i also know th admins of this site are stubborn fools , that cant bring them self to either apoligize for their mistakes of not posting the rules, and further more they just dont want to feel they did something wrong. Seriously if you dont want to cancel this hotm, remove the OTHER arcade. That way the other two guys left cna have a fair vote. And then have the two arcades for the next one. That way itl be fair for all of these guys. Thats all i would like to say

No hard feeling

-pspcrazy.com

Sorry for the spelling errors im in a hurry.

nitro
23 Dec 2005, 22:13
This would not be fair to the author of v3arcade.

I need to also point out that my use of the phrase "Unwritten rule" was not correct. The rule does exist and has been viewable by the public for a long time now:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/rules.php?



The actions that would be taken (removal from the HOTM poll) was not something the public was aware of. As I've said before we will make sure everyone is aware of that next month.

Yes other hack authors have been removed from the poll (some before it was even posted) due to the same thing. Again we don't pick on certain people while letting others slide for the same thing.

So when a hack developer has 2 or more beta testers where the hack is currently in a private beta stage the main coder has to write a completely seperate message to all testers and make damn sure its worded differently else the hack itself is not valid.

Really in four years or more of HotM and there is not a HotM rules page or sticky post, even though similar problems or other problems has arisen in the past. Seems to me you should think about coding the HotM properly as its likely to be quicker done.

ie. Top 3 install count for month is the contenders
Months installs multiplied by average rating == winner, 2nd place and final runner up.

The end, no rules required, no poll required, no way to break rules of the HotM feature itself. No arguments nothing.

A competition with no set rules or guidelines is to be frank ridiculous. I would suggest something like the above if thats the case.

Paul M
23 Dec 2005, 23:00
There's a setting in your admincp under usergroups to set a maximum number of recipients you know. Why even have that rule?That just affects a single send, you can repeat send a PM to different people as many times as you want.

Look brad, seriously . This hotm is corrupted. If my hack was in here i personally wouldnt want to win. ......<snip> ...... Seriously if you dont want to cancel this hotm, remove the OTHER arcade. That way the other two guys left cna have a fair vote. .Why should they remove the other arcade, they did nothing wrong. As for not wanting to win - I think you may view it differently if your hack was in this months vote. If mine was in i'd be more than happy to win. In a few months no one will care how how you won, you will be in the HOTM list and that's all people will see.

Feckie (Roger)
23 Dec 2005, 23:37
1.3 No "Spamming": Please do not double post or cross-post the same message in multiple forums. You will not mass-PM or mass-email multiple members of this site the same message. You will not post for the sake of increasing your post count or hack count.

So Does This Also Mean That Coders are Not Allowed To Pm or Email Members
Who Have Installed There Hacks That There As been An Update......

Good For The Goose Comes To Mind

pspcrazy
23 Dec 2005, 23:46
So Does This Also Mean That Coders are Not Allowed To Pm or Email Members
Who Have Installed There Hacks That There As been An Update......

Good For The Goose Comes To Mind

Frankly im not here to argue, last comment before i start working on ym site, which needs more attention right now. The reason i would want to remove the other ack, is so that we know whic arcade is TRUELY better lol. The one with paid support or not. Also if v3 wins its obvious his hack of the monthis going to benefit him. for a free hack hotm is a personal satisfaction, for a premium hack hotm is more customers and something to refer to when some one says which is hould install. Please think in all dimensions thanks. Take care

Jenta
23 Dec 2005, 23:58
Why should they remove the other arcade, they did nothing wrong.
I think this needs to be evaluated. A hack with absolutly no support from the author in the release thread. Instead you have to pay 60 dollars to get support in his premium support section on a seperate site. Yes, there is no rule against that now but I still don't see why the staff can't see how bad that situation is and remove it. It's a sad day when the staff lets that type of situation go on.

I really don't know the reason behind Johns actions. Zero releases his hack and John spends 3 sleepless nights rushing to get an incomplete hack out just to spite Zero. The whole affair smells rotten. Btw, how soon we forget what happened to the last arcade John released.

KimmiKat
24 Dec 2005, 00:03
I just shot soda-pop all over the screen reading that comment about not being fair to the v3Arcade author. I'm now reading about this bru-haha on a few other sites now. It's not looking good for vb.org and it has lowered my and many other respect for this place. Just stating my opinion here...

Technically isn't this hack (v3Arcade) an paid hack since it requires a $60 donation for support?

This would not be fair to the author of v3arcade.

I need to also point out that my use of the phrase "Unwritten rule" was not correct. The rule does exist and has been viewable by the public for a long time now:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/rules.php?

The actions that would be taken (removal from the HOTM poll) was not something the public was aware of. As I've said before we will make sure everyone is aware of that next month.

Yes other hack authors have been removed from the poll (some before it was even posted) due to the same thing. Again we don't pick on certain people while letting others slide for the same thing.

tamarian
24 Dec 2005, 00:05
Mabye tamarians hack got removed and mabye he KNEW that rule. But the maker of this arcade didnt.

I think the only reason my name was volunteered by the admins here is because I was burnt by it twice for the last two months. The first I thought was unfair, similar to this case, and the second was absolutely bogus. But there have been others, as TheGeek mentioned.

But for the record, I didn't complain, and wish MrZero didn't have to go through this. I didn't even want my name to be thrown into this as an excuse by Chris, as it's embarrasing, and implies being a spammer.

But I didn't know about the rules, and still don't know where they are. The given rules mentioned here are about the forum, not the contest, even if we accept that as a definition of spam...

Brad
24 Dec 2005, 00:11
I just shot soda-pop all over the screen reading that comment about not being fair to the v3Arcade author. I'm now reading about this bru-haha on a few other sites now. It's not looking good for vb.org and it has lowered my and many other respect for this place. Just stating my opinion here...

Technically isn't this hack (v3Arcade) an paid hack since it requires a $60 donation for support?

The hack itself is free, there is a support thread here for user -> user support and the hack author is not required to give any support at all. Lack of support is not grounds for having it removed from the poll.

Tamarian: your name shouldn't have been mentioned, I'll make sure it doesn't happen again.

The rules I quoted do apply to HOTM begin they take place on the forum, although it seems that wasn't clear to everyone and that will be solved starting next month.

pspcrazy
24 Dec 2005, 00:22
ok then, its all right, ill just pm some one to add my vote to somethign else. Thanks for the awesome site!

Jenta
24 Dec 2005, 01:30
The hack itself is free, there is a support thread here for user -> user support and the hack author is not required to give any support at all. Lack of support is not grounds for having it removed from the poll.
You forgot to add charging for support isnt grounds either. That's a horrible policy.

Lizard King
24 Dec 2005, 01:39
You forgot to add charging for support isnt grounds either. That's a horrible policy.

Everyone has a right to ask a price for support. There is nothing wrong about it.

In my point of view non on the hacks shall be removed but rules are rules. Even we like it or not.

Paul M
24 Dec 2005, 01:39
You forgot to add charging for support isnt grounds either. That's a horrible policy.Perhaps they only like to add facts rather than fiction ?

davidw
24 Dec 2005, 01:42
Can a moderator please remove my vote... It appears my vote got changed to "VBGooglemap: Google maps on your board" and I have no clue (or have the desire to find out at the moment) what this is. I think getting my vote switched to something I didn't vote for constitutes FRAUD.

Chris M
24 Dec 2005, 01:46
Your vote is still for whichever you voted for, however due to the removal of ibProArcade, what the system thinks you voted for is different - This only affects what you see, but your vote is still counted for the hack that you originally voted for...

Chris

nexialys
24 Dec 2005, 02:03
Your vote is still for whichever you voted for, however due to the removal of ibProArcade, what the system thinks you voted for is different - This only affects what you see, but your vote is still counted for the hack that you originally voted for...
Christhis is a bug in 3.0.x polls btw... the new 3.5 system have been debugged LONG TIME AGO.. lol

ok, someone else' bug?

GoTTi
24 Dec 2005, 02:19
im sure its ok if we do our own right?

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=103636

Paul M
24 Dec 2005, 02:33
I doubt that's going to last very long ......

Jenta
24 Dec 2005, 02:33
Perhaps they only like to add facts rather than fiction ?
fiction? where have you been?

Paul M
24 Dec 2005, 02:39
fiction? where have you been?Well, I went out for a meal earlier today, and I was at work yesterday - why, is it relevant to something ?

cinq
24 Dec 2005, 02:54
In many circles, if there is no black and white, there is no case.
IPBArcade should be reinstated.

GoTTi
24 Dec 2005, 03:43
yea thread got deleted with some bs reasons pm'd to me. whack. theres no justification for deleting the poll i did. how is it trolling and who is spamming any1 to vote on my own poll?

TyleR
24 Dec 2005, 04:22
Gawd All Fookin Mighty People..Don't you get it already? once a decision has been met by the vBulletin.org team, it WON'T be reversed, ESPECIALLY in a HotM Poll..You're fighting to win a battle, but you've already lost the war..the actions may not be good in your view, but it's what is called for because of previous actions by other HotM entree's. Don't Like their actions taken? They've already said you can contact Wayne Luke (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/member.php?do=getinfo&username=Wayne%20Luke) and take that route..nothing's going to change, get over it already.

Kacela
24 Dec 2005, 05:43
Gawd All Fookin Mighty People..Don't you get it already? once a decision has been met by the vBulletin.org team, it WON'T be reversed, ESPECIALLY in a HotM Poll..You're fighting to win a battle, but you've already lost the war..the actions may not be good in your view, but it's what is called for because of previous actions by other HotM entree's. Don't Like their actions taken? They've already said you can contact Wayne Luke (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/member.php?do=getinfo&username=Wayne%20Luke) and take that route..nothing's going to change, get over it already.It doesn't need to be reversed - the process needs to be changed... this current poll is a joke and should not even count - people who cast votes for ibProArcade have had their votes reassigned to the other hacks after ibProArcade was unjustly disqualified for breaking a rule for 1) whose existance is in question as even have been in place at the start of this poll, and 2) Even if it was an "unwritten" rule, it shouldn't even apply to this polling process - if this rule was broken, it should be an administrative infraction against Mr. Zeropage and not against his hack, as has been done here.

Jenta - please PM me with your contact details.

reality73
24 Dec 2005, 05:44
It may be a loosing battle but that does not mean that oppinions do not matter. I don't know about yall but if I was to just go in and cut off a winning part of a poll in the middle of a poll with no rules to back it up my membership would chop my head off does the admin team here even know what spamming is by def:

To send (a message) indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups

Indiscriminately-
1) Not making or based on careful distinctions; unselective
2)Random; haphazard
3)Confused; chaotic
4)Unrestrained or wanton

OK Now correct me if I am wrong but this does not define what was done by Mr. Zero at all. he selected his people that he sent an Email to very carefully from a list of beta testers. That would not be defined as SPAM by any sane minded person. So I to believe that someone needs to take a closer look at the Large mistake that has been made by the Administartion here to Mr. Zero and the other past people that this has been done to.

Tony G
24 Dec 2005, 06:28
I don't know why people are continuing to waste their time arguing about this. It's a rule - no promoting your hack in a HOTM vote. We found out it was happening, and like all the previous cases it was removed. This has not changed - and it won't ever change back for anyone, as it would be unfair on all those other contestants who hacks were removed from the poll for promoting it.

Marco van Herwaarden
24 Dec 2005, 10:13
I would like to add that we already admitted this months actions will win a beauty contest, and that this rule should be more clearly visible, and that we will change that in the next run of the poll. I don't see what is left to fight about it.

PS Nobody's votes got 'reassigned'.
PSS Paying for support should show in less votes by members if they really cared about that.

The Geek
24 Dec 2005, 10:24
The hack itself is free, there is a support thread here for user -> user support and the hack author is not required to give any support at all. Lack of support is not grounds for having it removed from the poll.


hehe. Thats classic. I PMed Erwin before I released GARS. I asked him if I could release it here FOC but with a simple request that support questions were done on thevbgeek.com as it is a pain to support huge projects like that in a single thread.

The only reason GARS is a commercial hack now is because he said 'No'. I was told that Support should not be done outside of .org as it is seen as baiting.

Not that I'm complaining now! I just thought I would point out how inconsistent policies are at times. Sadly it takes a bad situation to point these hic ups out :)

Paul M
24 Dec 2005, 10:34
hehe. Thats classic. I PMed Erwin before I released GARS. I asked him if I could release it here FOC but with a simple request that support questions were done on thevbgeek.com as it is a pain to support huge projects like that in a single thread.

The only reason GARS is a commercial hack now is because he said 'No'. I was told that Support should not be done outside of .org as it is seen as baiting.
Not really related to the HOTM, but that's just plain silly. It's up to the author how they support something. Even the staff support their hacks using external sites (andreas, journal ....).

people who cast votes for ibProArcade have had their votes reassigned to the other hacks They haven't, that's just a poll display bug in 3.0

The Geek
24 Dec 2005, 10:41
Not really related to the HOTM, but that's just plain silly. It's up to the author how they support something. Even the staff support their hacks using external sites (andreas, journal ....).

Yup - very silly, not related to HOTM but very much related to inconsistant rules being applied willy nilly which seems to be a large portion of the topic. ;)

Corriewf
24 Dec 2005, 12:13
Over time, websites evolve to serve their members. Lately there has been a lot of heated discussion about commercial hacks and addons for vBulletin and this site. Currently they are not allowed in the forums but a good portion of the membership would like to see them here according to recent polls. What I would like to propose is an equitable solution that hopefully addresses the major issues.



I think since precedents are being utilized to rationalize actions taken by one mod here, then certain other precedents should be taken into consideration. The above logic applies here.

The people have spoken. Reset the poll while there is plenty of time left. Make an announcement to let everyone know that the poll has been reset and close the announcement.

If you are a fan of simplicity then you would implement the above.

Feckie (Roger)
24 Dec 2005, 12:15
I think since precedents are being utilized to rationalize actions taken by one mod here, then certain other precedents should be taken into consideration. The above logic applies here.

The people have spoken. Reset the poll while there is plenty of time left. Make an announcement to let everyone know that the poll has been reset and close the announcement.

If you are a fan of simplicity then you would implement the above.


Totaly Agree With The Above

Marco van Herwaarden
24 Dec 2005, 12:30
actions taken by one mod here
It was not the action of a single mod. It has been a team decission (although not all team members where online to participate), and the moderator in question was asked to execute the decission since he had time available.

Corriewf
24 Dec 2005, 12:48
It was not the action of a single mod. It has been a team decission (although not all team members where online to participate), and the moderator in question was asked to execute the decission since he had time available.


It was a decision made in haste. Unfortunately this decision is harming the community. Without a community there is no site nor a need for staff.

I may or may not agree with the action taken by a staff member here however there is a public outcry for its reversal. There is no public outcry or even a single member to support the action as of yet.

The numbers add up.

Marco van Herwaarden
24 Dec 2005, 12:49
I was only replying to you stating this was the action of a single Moderator.

Corriewf
24 Dec 2005, 12:52
May I also add that the team decision was made after the fact. But this really does not bear any impact to the issue at hand.

I was only replying to you stating this was the action of a single Moderator.

I understand, but its redundant at this point. It doesnt matter who made it or why. I will go out on a limb and say at face value it was the best decision at the time, but that time has passed and now the situation is different.


The end goal here is to maintain a community which is what the rules support via core values. Should the rules not support the communitie's core values then they should be revised. Since the rule in question is implied (not written), then it's revision should be quite efficient and pleasing to the overall community. ;)

Tony G
24 Dec 2005, 13:09
You seem to completly forget about all the other times this happened. Why whinge now? Why this one? Nothing was different and nothing has changed in our decision. And this decision was not made in haste or in the heat of the moment. It was discussed with the staff AND the hack author. And I'm sorry, but a few vocal members does not represent the community - we have 110,000 members, and you are like the angry mothers of the community.

All the other hack authors who have had this happened to them are of course upset, but they understand and get over it. I think some of you should just do the same. We are aware the rule wasn't that clear but we had enforced it before so it is not completly oblivious to the "community"

Marco van Herwaarden
24 Dec 2005, 13:10
May I also add that the team decision was made after the fact.Could i aks on what (wrong) info you base that assumption?
I understand, but its redundant at this point. It doesnt matter who made it or why.If it doesn't matter, then why you posted that it was a decission by a single moderator.

For the rest see my answer a few posts back.

Paul M
24 Dec 2005, 13:13
Maybe you should install the little hack that allows you to close a thread but continue to vote .....

Corriewf
24 Dec 2005, 13:26
You seem to completly forget about all the other times this happened. Why whinge now? Why this one? Nothing was different and nothing has changed in our decision. And this decision was not made in haste or in the heat of the moment. It was discussed with the staff AND the hack author. And I'm sorry, but a few vocal members does not represent the community - we have 110,000 members, and you are like the angry mothers of the community.

All the other hack authors who have had this happened to them are of course upset, but they understand and get over it. I think some of you should just do the same. We are aware the rule wasn't that clear but we had enforced it before so it is not completly oblivious to the "community"

I did not forget. I really dont care what rule you made or what rule you may enforce. You may have to make a rule right now this second to address something. This is normal as our environment is one of constant change. The only thing I care about is the public outcry. This is now a priority of Jelsoft which has become quite prominent as of late.

Over time, websites evolve to serve their members. Lately there has been a lot of heated discussion about commercial hacks and addons for vBulletin and this site. Currently they are not allowed in the forums but a good portion of the membership would like to see them here according to recent polls. What I would like to propose is an equitable solution that hopefully addresses the major issues.


Tony, do not make the mistake of becoming defensive. Your use of quotes on the word community is to mock me. If you do not agree with the context then do not agree. I am sure you have another outlet for derogatory notions. :)

Those that have an opinion will post and those without one will not. If members are expressing themselves then they are representing their portion of the community. It is a large enough portion to spend 30 minutes reading a thread. That is large enough for me. What are your standards? ;)

Could i aks on what (wrong) info you base that assumption?
If it doesn't matter, then why you posted that it was a decission by a single moderator.

For the rest see my answer a few posts back.


To establish credibility of it's haste, nothing more.

Maybe you should install the little hack that allows you to close a thread but continue to vote .....

You can always decide not to read if the content is not to your liking.

Marco van Herwaarden
24 Dec 2005, 13:42
To establish credibility of it's haste, nothing more.Then i must disappoint you, it was not done in haste, it was discussed by Staff before any action was taken.

Corriewf
24 Dec 2005, 13:53
Then i must disappoint you, it was not done in haste, it was discussed by Staff before any action was taken.

How many people make a decision does not define whether the decision was in haste or not, time can only do that.

I personally do not fault anyone here for what has happened. The only mistake to be made now is to not listen to the current outcry of the community.

Marco van Herwaarden
24 Dec 2005, 13:58
*sigh*
This will be my last post about the topic.
I posted it was not done in haste, what info you got about staff decissions to state anything else.

Corriewf
24 Dec 2005, 14:05
*sigh*
This will be my last post about the topic.


Ok, have a Merry Christmas. :)

The Geek
24 Dec 2005, 15:53
It seems that the best solution is to reset the entire poll. Let it run on an extra week to make up for the lost time. I cant see what harm it could do. Regardless, what community there is that is currently active have voiced their opinion on the matter and it does seem to suggest that they disagree with what has happened. That alone does not warrant a reversal of staff decision - however it does warrant looking at a possible solution that would be fair for everyone.

For what its worth - I think that the mods made the best decision at the time with the information they had. However there are times when the best intentions are not always the best solutions. Be big enough to say 'crap, I miscalled that one.'

Also for what its worth - after the hoo haw, I downloaded both systems and from my point of view, v3arcade is far better. Its coded from scratch, far cleaner and better written. Thats not to say the other isn't good and has its merits - its just to point out that regardless of my preference, fair is fair. You cant punish someone for a rule that is unpublished and enforced sporadically.

Reset the entire poll, and leave it open until the end of January. Leave January's as-is normal. Who cares if the two overlap?

Just my yule log for the fire ;)

AshokForums.com
24 Dec 2005, 19:28
GUYS please have a look at this.. :( whats going on here.. Check out this link http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=93783

Show your support and vote this hack for HotM September!!

Although he has clearly requesting the forum members to vote, his hack wasnt removed from the HotM for September.. http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=96300

Chris M
24 Dec 2005, 20:05
That is neither using the "Send Update" feature or the PM system, or emailing members directly to ask them to vote...

Whether this sort of action will be prohibited in the future, we will find out when the rules are made public...

IMO that is acceptable, as it is contained within the hack thread, and does not intrude elsewhere within this forum...

Chris

kewl1uk
24 Dec 2005, 20:36
That is neither using the "Send Update" feature or the PM system, or emailing members directly to ask them to vote...

Whether this sort of action will be prohibited in the future, we will find out when the rules are made public...

IMO that is acceptable, as it is contained within the hack thread, and does not intrude elsewhere within this forum...

Chris

I think you are missing the point: MrZeroPage didn't knowingly break any rules because he didn't know about the rules which is not surprising because the HotM rules didn't exist at the time he allegedly broke them. Huh? Anyway, even at this moment in time there are no HotM rules except as existing amongst the staff who can most likely change them at anytime to anything they like because they are not written down! What I wonder is what other unwritten rules we don't know about will be applied in other areas of vbulletin.org not to mention other sites in the vbulletin group? For unwritten rules" I think read "whims". It's a dirty business isn't it!

tamarian
24 Dec 2005, 20:38
That is neither using the "Send Update" feature or the PM system, or emailing members directly to ask them to vote...

Could you guys stick to one set or interpretation of these rules.

I don't know why people are continuing to waste their time arguing about this. It's a rule - no promoting your hack in a HOTM vote.

There are several past nominees and winners who asked for votes (some of them staff members (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=475110&postcount=650)). Now if you say it's o.k. to promote it in your threads, that's more "mass" promotion than PM's to your testers or those seeking support.

Chris M
24 Dec 2005, 20:50
We will work out every possible eventuality and word the rules accordingly - Whether promoting it only within the first post of your hack thread is allowed or not, I don't know... yet...

Chris

sitka
25 Dec 2005, 08:25
reset the poll.

Boofo
25 Dec 2005, 11:57
Also for what its worth - after the hoo haw, I downloaded both systems and from my point of view, v3arcade is far better. Its coded from scratch, far cleaner and better written.

You can't even enter a game manually in v3Arcade. That alone takes it down a few notches.

Oblivion Knight
25 Dec 2005, 12:24
You can't even enter a game manually in v3Arcade. That alone takes it down a few notches.Sure you can.. :p
Admin CP -> Game Tools -> Import

Paul M
25 Dec 2005, 12:41
Haven't we done arcade v arcade to death already ....

Rickie3
25 Dec 2005, 13:42
it is getting boring now,thread should be closed,whats done is done,and what ever has been decided, and no matter what our views will not change decisions that have been made by staff,and as for rules that didnt exist,hopefully the rules will be clearly clarified in future events.

Boofo
25 Dec 2005, 15:13
Sure you can.. :p
Admin CP -> Game Tools -> Import

Post a screenshot. When I looked in there I didn't see any place to add the game info manually.

AWS
25 Dec 2005, 16:32
This is the most unfair action I have ever seen done to an individual. I could care less for these types of competitions because they are nothing more than popularity contests. I do have to comment on this.
There are several things wrong with what was done.
First staff decides to disqualify a nominee for breaking a rule. The problem is the rule is not a written rule, but, is an implied rule that everyone should know since staff knows of it.
The person that broke the rule didn't know they were breaking it yet staff decided they did and removed them from nomination.
What really makes this a traversty is the removal was done after the voting started. If anything the whole contest should have been started over.
As a result what you now have is the community upset with what happened and a few of the staff members defending the decision and doing damage control.
In all fairness this months contest should be closed and no further contests should be started until a set of rules is defined and posted for all to see. I also agree with staff that the no spam rule for the site was broken, however, no where is it stated that this rule applies to this contest. What staff should have done is reprimand the user for using the PM system to spam by either a warning or a temp ban.
Now that the damage is done and staff is making itself look bad in their responses to this thead the only logical thing for them to do to save face is close this contest, set up specific rules that leave little to misinterpretation and admit that they might have made a hasty decision.
As I said I could care less for these types of contests, but, what was done here is an injustice and needs to be rectified.

AshokForums.com
25 Dec 2005, 19:03
Well said AWS.. Totally Agree with you

Corriewf
25 Dec 2005, 19:26
Post a screenshot. When I looked in there I didn't see any place to add the game info manually.

Lemme get my photoshop up. He he he ;)

Cap'n Steve
26 Dec 2005, 06:43
Let's face it, the only reason anyone cares about this is because the arcades are so popular. Restarting the poll would probably be the easiest thing to do to make the majority happy, but that really wouldn't be fair to everyone who's had their hack removed from previous polls.

Jenta, I'm getting sick of your trolling. As far as arcade preference goes, I'm with The Geek. Ibpro might have better support or more features, but as soon as I saw that it came with it's own database class, complete with a second connection, I ran for the hills.

EDIT: I don't know why it needed to be reworded, I thought it was just a funny explanation of why Jenta seems so angry with John. :speechless:

Omranic
26 Dec 2005, 07:13
v3 Arcade - Games Arcade System for 3.5.1 is the champion :) ;)

Xplorer4x4
26 Dec 2005, 15:58
Are any of the previous HoTM contests fair seeing as there winners may have unknowingly broken other rules regarding HoTM? Most likley atleast one previous HoTM winners would of been DQed over a broken rule gone unnoticed. So is it fair to allow IPB Arcade in, perhaps not but is it fair to call anyone an Offical HoTM winner?

Jenta
26 Dec 2005, 16:59
Jenta, I'm getting sick of your trolling.Good! :p

GoTTi
27 Dec 2005, 20:08
yea this is a complete nightmare for the hotm for dec. just redicoulous. we cant get answers completely. i went far enough to make my own poll for us in the general forum, and it got deleted by Brad, and i got sent this PM


Hello GoTTi!

I have deleted your thread "HotM December: Users Choice" due to that reason:
1.2 No "Trolling": Please do not post any topic that disrupts the peace and harmony of this board. Don't create meaningless threads with the sole purpose of starting a dispute. This includes messages in profiles and signatures.

1.3 No "Spamming": Please do not double post or cross-post the same message in multiple forums. You will not mass-PM or mass-email multiple members of this site the same message. You will not post for the sake of increasing your post count or hack count.

Greetings,
Brad


still dont understand how my poll affects anything and how i spammed and how its a problem. if this gets your attention brad, instead of the 3 PM's ive sent u already that have been ignored, let us all know why my poll isnt ok. thanks.

LEAD_WEIGHT
27 Dec 2005, 20:17
yea this is a complete nightmare for the hotm for dec. just redicoulous. we cant get answers completely. i went far enough to make my own poll for us in the general forum, and it got deleted by Brad, and i got sent this PM



still dont understand how my poll affects anything and how i spammed and how its a problem. if this gets your attention brad, instead of the 3 PM's ive sent u already that have been ignored, let us all know why my poll isnt ok. thanks.

You are creating more ppl to vent and most already did in this thread, you do not need to make the staff here to be pitted against memebers.

GoTTi
27 Dec 2005, 22:22
the staff is already pitted against its members right now on this matter dont ya think

Corriewf
28 Dec 2005, 00:38
yea this is a complete nightmare for the hotm for dec. just redicoulous. we cant get answers completely. i went far enough to make my own poll for us in the general forum, and it got deleted by Brad, and i got sent this PM



still dont understand how my poll affects anything and how i spammed and how its a problem. if this gets your attention brad, instead of the 3 PM's ive sent u already that have been ignored, let us all know why my poll isnt ok. thanks.


I voted for boofo..... Maybe thats why he yanked it.... :ermm:

Lizard King
28 Dec 2005, 08:54
the staff is already pitted against its members right now on this matter dont ya think

You think so. People who has other things to do don't give a damn if IPB pro arcade is removed or not. There are rules which had been applied before but fanatic users are trolling this thread and blaming moderators which i find NONSENSE...

LEAD_WEIGHT
28 Dec 2005, 08:57
You think so. People who has other things to do don't give a damn if IPB pro arcade is removed or not. There are rules which had been applied before but fanatic users are trolling this thread and blaming moderators which i find NONSENSE...

I still think the 'thank you!' hack should be applied to HOTM so ppl do not respond like this again. ;)

Lizard King
28 Dec 2005, 09:12
I still think the 'thank you!' hack should be applied to HOTM so ppl do not respond like this again. ;)

I am just fed up. I am trying to follow the board as best as i can and since the moderators decision there is a mess going on here. As a user i am really disturbed. Yes i shall not post like that but what about people try to troll this thread which each of their posts. Subject closed and then reopen by a guy who posted 10 times in this thread. I understand they think they are right but they made their point and moderators made theirs and moderators are incharge here. So there is no point of this nonsense discussion i believe. If you are disturbed you only post your idea's Once not 10 times.

Corriewf
28 Dec 2005, 09:50
I am just fed up. I am trying to follow the board as best as i can and since the moderators decision there is a mess going on here. As a user i am really disturbed. Yes i shall not post like that but what about people try to troll this thread which each of their posts. Subject closed and then reopen by a guy who posted 10 times in this thread. I understand they think they are right but they made their point and moderators made theirs and moderators are incharge here. So there is no point of this nonsense discussion i believe. If you are disturbed you only post your idea's Once not 10 times.

Whos on first??? Wait....Whos on second?

Paul M
28 Dec 2005, 13:49
ZZZZZzzzzz......

Deimos
28 Dec 2005, 20:11
It's a shame to see IBPro arcade removed, I voted for it over the other offering due to lack of support from the V3Arcade owner.

aranthorn
28 Dec 2005, 20:42
So, we have a winner that isn't supported, 2 nominees that are still in beta, along with a removed candidate. Then there's the ArticleBot RSS. Is that about right?

Well, I'm voting for ArticleBot because it's not in beta testing and it's supported.

Deimos
28 Dec 2005, 20:49
Well even though the IPBPro arcade was removed, it says i've allready voted
I hope my vote wasn't reallocated to the other arcade or something.

MrZeropage
28 Dec 2005, 21:21
Hmmmm, any chance for me to place my vote again ?

The vB-Bug says I already voted for (2) but it is not counted there... ;)

Zachery
28 Dec 2005, 23:24
Well even though the IPBPro arcade was removed, it says i've allready voted
I hope my vote wasn't reallocated to the other arcade or something.\
No votes were "reassigned or changed". You have voted for the IB Pro arcade mod, its just no longer listed. I'd suggest pming Chris M as he suggested if you need your vote changed.

Jenta
30 Dec 2005, 02:19
Why not just run a query and reset the has voted flag for those whos votes you removed? Having 200 odd people pm a moderator isnt going to happen.

Btw, I see googlemap is still on here and the author supposedly sent out an update email mentioning the poll. What was the outcome of that?

LEAD_WEIGHT
30 Dec 2005, 02:51
Why not just run a query and reset the has voted flag for those whos votes you removed? Having 200 odd people pm a moderator isnt going to happen.

Btw, I see googlemap is still on here and the author supposedly sent out an update email mentioning the poll. What was the outcome of that?

If that is true, as I see that something was posted on about that earlier. If this was not followed the same way, then I see Dec HOTH a bit of a sham. So what is up with that? Any truth in it, or just flaming again? :ermm:

Zachery
30 Dec 2005, 07:02
To both jenta and lead_weight, did either of you report it? The original mod was brought directly to our attention by several members.

nuxvirg
30 Dec 2005, 08:13
ArticleBot RSS Feed Poster 2.58

because I think its really about vbulletin. but others, its about a game, adds.. Means there are simply things..

Most important topic ArticleBot RSS Feed Poster..

It's my idea..

LEAD_WEIGHT
30 Dec 2005, 08:37
To both jenta and lead_weight, did either of you report it? The original mod was brought directly to our attention by several members.

This is what Jenta must of been talking about? I do not see anything else that brought my attension.
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=854440&postcount=75

Brad
30 Dec 2005, 09:48
When things like this happen the staff is seen as uncaring towards the membership, please understand that this is not our intention and we do care a great bit about this site and the people that visit it. These decisions are tough ones to make but at some point someone has to make a call one way or the other.

I will clarify exactly how this was dealt with:

On the 20th of this month a PM was forwarded to an admin from one of our member's, the PM in question has been sent to this user by MrZeropage. An admin sent a private message to MrZeropage, this PM explained that sending messages to other user's requesting they vote for a modification was considered spam.

After a discussion that included multiple moderators, and two admins (one begin me) it was decided that the modification would be removed from the poll. This was done because even with a list of users that received the PM, we have no way of telling who the author's friends or beta testers are. In addition to that other hacks were not allowed in past HOTM threads due to PM spamming asking users to click the install button on certain hacks (so they would be in the poll).

At that time an admin gave the go ahead for the modification to be removed from the poll, and a moderator followed these instructions. This action was taken about 24 hours after the initial report was sent to us.

Shortly after much feedback was posted in this thread related to the issue, and some things have been tossed around that are simply not true (partly thanks to a bad word choice on my part). We listen to all feedback and do our best to resolve problems like this, but you must realize that things do take time and we can't make everyone happy. I think the response to this thread has been so great because many people use the arcade add-on's, when you combine their user base together we are talking about a nice chunk of users keeping an eye on this thread. When a large modification is removed fans of it are going to post questions asking why it was removed, this is just natural.

"The unwritten rule" was again a bad word choice on my part. The rule in question is this one:

From the site rules (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/rules.php)

1.3 No "Spamming": Please do not double post or cross-post the same message in multiple forums. You will not mass-PM or mass-email multiple members of this site the same message. You will not post for the sake of increasing your post count or hack count.

This rule covers the entire site, including HOTM threads. What the users were not aware of is the action the staff would take if someone was caught spamming others in an attempt to win HOTM or have a hack included in the poll.

In response to the user feedback we are making a few changes to the site to make our policies more clear. The first step is the new guidelines for HOTM polls, these will be listed on the rules page, in hotm threads, and will also be PM'ed to hack authors in the current months poll. These guidelines will state exactly is allowed and not allowed when asking users to vote for your modification, it will also outline the actions that will be taken if you are caught and how the issue will be handled by the staff. We will also re-write our site rules soon to make them more clear and understandable.

The current staff position on this poll is it will continue as is. We do not feel ipb pro arcade should be allowed back in the poll because that would not be fair other hack author's that have been removed from HOTM polls in the past. We can not bend the rules for one user while enforcing them upon others.

You are of course free to send in more feedback, this is an on-going issue and I think it will be some time before it's fully resolved. I encourage you guys to employ some people skills while posting in this thread (and elsewhere). You will find that I am much easier to work with when we discuss things like adults. I know a lot of lost in text, but try to remember to be kind to each other.

Gotti: I have been visiting family the past week and was sick for awhile after doing that. Thus I have not sent any replies to anyone that PM'ed in the last few days. You'll find my reply in your PM inbox.

Jenta
30 Dec 2005, 12:23
So what's up with googlemap then?

Marco van Herwaarden
30 Dec 2005, 12:29
If some members make an official complaint (report post/detailed PM to a Staff member) with proof, we will always investigate the report and take action if needed.

Jenta
30 Dec 2005, 13:26
Ok, thanks. I thought someone already did. At least they mentioned it in this thread. I thought an investigation would be initiated without a member having to take the first step.

BTW, Brad. Logically one of your comments I don't really get. You single out one rule.

The rules as posted are like this...

1.General Posting Rules:

1.1 No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harrass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest.

1.2 No "Trolling": Please do not post any topic that disrupts the peace and harmony of this board. Don't create meaningless threads with the sole purpose of starting a dispute. This includes messages in profiles and signatures.

1.3 No "Spamming": Please do not double post or cross-post the same message in multiple forums. You will not mass-PM or mass-email multiple members of this site the same message. You will not post for the sake of increasing your post count or hack count.

1.4 No senseless "Bumping": Please do not bump your request/help searching or other threads several times a day. Remember there are people who don't browse this board every hour. So do not bump a thread within 24h or too much even after 24 hours.

1.5 No "Offensive" Posts, Links or Images: Please do not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, racist, sexist, discriminatory, or otherwise violative of any local or international laws. This includes links in your signature, profile, bookmarks as well as posted images, photos and avatars. Staff will ultimately decide if something is appropriate or not.

I presume someone trolling, etc would not disqualify them from HOTM. ;)

Chris M
30 Dec 2005, 13:30
Brad merely highlighted one rule - That doesn't mean that the other rules may not apply to this or any other case...

Chris

nitro
30 Dec 2005, 18:43
As the HotM rules currently seem to be based on the General site rules I would really not like to hazzard a guess at how many HotM contenders over the last 4 years may well have been in breach of these rules, I would guess the majority. It would really depend on how you want to interpret each "general" rule. It could be seen by some that v3arcade is as much in breech of the self promotion rule #2 in Site wide rules.

As they say whats good for the goose is good for the gander and it really depends on 1 interpretation and 2 how much to the letter the rules are to be followed in their current vague form.

I have no beef with either arcade. v3 was great at one time and still has that potential, Im still a fan of both products. The way the rules are currently applied are just a no goer.

akanevsky
30 Dec 2005, 18:49
How come my invites system isn't in the list? ;P
How are hacks nominated, anyway?

amykhar
30 Dec 2005, 18:55
it's done automatcially based on the number of installations.

akanevsky
30 Dec 2005, 18:59
Oh, I see... :(

Code Monkey
31 Dec 2005, 02:08
Holly cow! I didn't even know my crappy little hack was in this poll. Up against the words "game" and "Google" none the less. Sure to fail in that fight. :D Figures it would be there when conspiracy theories and espionage rule the day. Oh well, such is life.

I guess it would be a good idea to email hack authors whenever a hack of theirs ends up in this little backstage show here. And in that email could be a little update on the rules and guidlines that a good little coder should follow when their prized toys are dancing on this stage. That would pretty much solve everything. And the bonus is, they might even get to know their hack is involved.

Is it ok if we vote for our own? :D

Corriewf
31 Dec 2005, 02:26
Holly cow! I didn't even know my crappy little hack was in this poll. Up against the words "game" and "Google" none the less. Sure to fail in that fight. :D Figures it would be there when conspiracy theories and espionage rule the day. Oh well, such is life.

I guess it would be a good idea to email hack authors whenever a hack of theirs ends up in this little backstage show here. And in that email could be a little update on the rules and guidlines that a good little coder should follow when their prized toys are dancing on this stage. That would pretty much solve everything. And the bonus is, they might even get to know their hack is involved.

Is it ok if we vote for our own? :D

Are you serious? I think there may be a little more important things for staff to do then to remind everyone that should care enough to check, that their hack is in the running.

With that said though, I am going to vote for you as I like underdogs... :)

GOODLUCK!

Code Monkey
31 Dec 2005, 02:32
Are you serious? I think there may be a little more important things for staff to do then to remind everyone that should care enough to check, that their hack is in the running.

With that said though, I am going to vote for you as I like underdogs... :)

GOODLUCK!

Sorry, I meant as an automated process, and mostly to stipulate the rules. I was being facetious with the notification part. Since it seems that election to the poll is automated also. Why not just add another process. It's called CYA where I come from. So yes, I am serious.