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View Full Version : The nerve of some people


stonyarc
17 Apr 2006, 18:46
Hello,

I find it amazing what some people do.

A little sample:

http://www.thunderbirdnest.com/forums/VBGooglemap.php

Just as if they created it themselves they not only bluntly removed the reference to my work but even replaced it with their own.

Some people wonder why coders start to go commercial.

I release here because I get a lot of respect of the people that do click install on my mods. The only thing I ask for is not to remove the copyright without contacting me.

That cannot be hard to do. In version 2.0.2 I even moved it all the way to the bottom so not the mess up anybodies style or whatever.

But this is getting to me. I feel disrespected.

Not to start a flame war but I (and a lot of other coders) we do give free support in any way we can, involve users in the creation of new features, take on custom request.

The least people can do, is leave the reference intact.

soniceffect
17 Apr 2006, 19:09
I couldn`t agree more ... you guys do work that I could only dream (at the moment) of having the ability to do, the fact that some people completely disregard, not only copyright, but common curtasy is ridiculous. And to be honest, I recon they gotta lead a fairly sad life to have the need to make themselfs look good LOL ...


Have you contacted there admin?

hambil
17 Apr 2006, 19:14
The world will always have a lot of inconsiderate idiots in it. I knew going into this that anything I release here is 'fair game' to those kinds of people. I do it anyway because I truly enjoy writting hacks for vBulletin. When and if the time comes that I want my code protected, I'll release stuff that isn't free. Just my 2 cents.

soniceffect
17 Apr 2006, 19:21
Would not consider it 'fair game' m8 ... At the end of the day, your code is protected by copyright law. The only thing copyrighting an item, be it code or not, is the ability to prove where it originated.. A lot of people do this by way of mailing the item to themselves by recorded delivery and never opening it, and therefore having a timestamp proving it`s the original. As a coder you know yourself it can be proven that the original was created by yourself :)

hapbird
17 Apr 2006, 19:41
I couldn`t agree more ... you guys do work that I could only dream (at the moment) of having the ability to do, the fact that some people completely disregard, not only copyright, but common curtasy is ridiculous. And to be honest, I recon they gotta lead a fairly sad life to have the need to make themselfs look good LOL ...


Have you contacted there admin?

Actually that site looks familiar. I think they have a userid here. I'll see if i can find it.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/member.php?u=27481

Look at his profile. I believe thats the same person.

Jon_Simmonds
17 Apr 2006, 19:48
Thats wrong...

Yeah we all may want a credit free look, but I know that it comes with a cost, for which some scripts/hacks I can afford, others I cant, so the credits stay up!

I hope this one person doesnt affect your hacks releases in the future.

stonyarc
17 Apr 2006, 19:51
Thats wrong...

Yeah we all may want a credit free look, but I know that it comes with a cost, for which some scripts/hacks I can afford, others I cant, so the credits stay up!

I hope this one person doesnt affect your hacks releases in the future.

Well to be honest it's not the first one that just removed or replaced it.

And even some people claim they don't install just for that reason.

I wonder why vbulletin.org hasn't created a copyright protection policy we can all use.

I would hate to have to integrate a call home function

Jon_Simmonds
17 Apr 2006, 20:18
tbh if someone is abbusing the copyright of a hack coder, they shouldnt be able to download any additional hacks (just remove them from the licensed vb owners group so they cant see the links...)

Zachariah
17 Apr 2006, 20:35
Offering a little coin for removal of copyright always works for me.

Code Monkey
17 Apr 2006, 20:36
tbh if someone is abbusing the copyright of a hack coder, they shouldnt be able to download any additional hacks (just remove them from the licensed vb owners group so they cant see the links...)

I agree

amykhar
17 Apr 2006, 21:02
I've never required anybody to leave the copyright on and don't mind horribly if they take it off. But, when they change the copyright to credit themself for the work, I get ticked.

Even worse is when they repost the mod here as if they wrote it. Had that happen twice.

Roms
17 Apr 2006, 21:20
I've never required anybody to leave the copyright on and don't mind horribly if they take it off. But, when they change the copyright to credit themself for the work, I get ticked.

I'm the same way, I can live with a removal, (I mainly do templates/styles...) but it bothers me more when they change the copyright to credit themselves... (I've had recent problems with it here (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=918754&postcount=11) too... :tired: )

stonyarc
17 Apr 2006, 21:22
I've never required anybody to leave the copyright on and don't mind horribly if they take it off. But, when they change the copyright to credit themself for the work, I get ticked.

Even worse is when they repost the mod here as if they wrote it. Had that happen twice.

Claiming the copyright if you don't have it is not the best thing to do.

We all sometimes look a peoples functions but point is to create something that has never been done or combine a lot of things in a new way.

The javascripts in the vbgooglemap are basically available in the API documentation. It's just a questions of using them in the right way and creating a vbulletin framework around it.

reposting and "recopyrighting" should be banned even if you don't mind that they remove the disclaimer.

amykhar
17 Apr 2006, 21:27
Jelsoft doesn't enforce our copyrights, although I think it would be nice if vb.org did ban offenders such as the site listed above. Have you tried a public shaming? Register at his site and post a thread about your disgust with a link to your mod here.

stonyarc
17 Apr 2006, 21:32
Jelsoft doesn't enforce our copyrights, although I think it would be nice if vb.org did ban offenders such as the site listed above. Have you tried a public shaming? Register at his site and post a thread about your disgust with a link to your mod here.

Not a bad idea but probably they don't have a lot of shame.

We could however setup a little group to create something like Creative Commons especially for the work we do.

That group could also create a little call home function we can all integrate so we know what URL's are running our mods, templates and hacks.

yinyang
17 Apr 2006, 21:52
I would hate to have to integrate a call home function

ooh, how do you do that? can that be a separate hack that other coders can use to protect their work?

soniceffect
17 Apr 2006, 21:55
Dont agree with the naming and shaming policy .. The problem with this is that if someone is incorrectly accused, then there name is tarnished ... It makes no difference whether it`s found to be an incorrect accusation or not, there will always be the doubt in peoples minds ...

stonyarc
17 Apr 2006, 21:57
Dont agree with the naming and shaming policy .. The problem with this is that if someone is incorrectly accused, then there name is tarnished ... It makes no difference whether it`s found to be an incorrect accusation or not, there will always be the doubt in peoples minds ...

You're right that was probably the frustration speaking.

It's up to the mods to ban someone not us.

ooh, how do you do that? can that be a separate hack that other coders can use to protect their work?

yes

it's just a question of making your hack contact a server and leave a message.

However there's the privacy issue again. So it's something we might need to think about

Mr Chad
17 Apr 2006, 22:44
The world will always have a lot of inconsiderate idiots in it. I knew going into this that anything I release here is 'fair game' to those kinds of people. I do it anyway because I truly enjoy writting hacks for vBulletin. When and if the time comes that I want my code protected, I'll release stuff that isn't free. Just my 2 cents.
You beat me to it :)

Nathan2006
17 Apr 2006, 22:55
I think its very wrong to change the creators notes :(

I would never dream of removing/changing that information.

The long hours, days, weeks & months it must take to create these great mods and someone goes and rips them is terrible.

All the free support from the creators and all. If people had to pay for this service then I'm guessing it would cost a lot of money.

Credit should go where credit is due and this should not be ripped off at all.

But I think this thread should give enough shame to that person who has that site on the 1st post ;)

amykhar
17 Apr 2006, 23:03
If you go to the site where this happened and say 'hey! I created that mod, not you guys', there is no way you could be accusing somebody wrongly. If you name the guy here who's profile matches, on the other hand, you could be getting the wrong guy.

tnguy3n
17 Apr 2006, 23:11
We could however setup a little group to create something like Creative Commons especially for the work we do.

That group could also create a little call home function we can all integrate so we know what URL's are running our mods, templates and hacks.

In this case, you probably have to encode your scripts so that other coders couldn't modify your script or remove the callback function. Then again, who would use encoded script? Who knows what's in it?
Removing copyright or claiming someone else's work as one own is one nature of internet. I once made a big fuss seeing someone did it to my scripts, but that I'm no longer as it didn't help at all, especially dealing with ppl in Asian countries (Vietnam, China, etc). I guess coders got to learn to live with it. :tired:

Paul M
18 Apr 2006, 00:53
I don't mind people removing my copyright notice if they ask, I don't charge for the right, I just want them to be polite and ask me, I've never said no, and probably never will.

MThornback
18 Apr 2006, 01:00
I don't remove it....but I have MOVED it to somewhere thats more convenient....its still visible, but I find that I use it more to balance the page....for example....stonyarc...with your googlemap, when you had your copyright where the text is...I moved it to where you have it now at the bottom to balance the page...I don't believe in stealing other peoples work...so my advice to people who do is....either move the copyright to somewhere more suited to your forums style, ask the coder for their permission...or credit the work elsewhere thats equally visible....the coders here are so giving of their time its a disgrace to see their work blatently stolen

</ 0.02>

hapbird
18 Apr 2006, 01:04
I did some looking on google (search) and came up with something quite interesting.

well here is some food for thought. Take a look at this thread on this board

http://www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/300528-1.html

Guess what, its the same site owner involved in a different scam.

Its a long read. but I noticed this in the middle of the thread where someone had found out who owned the site in question.

Posted by: Bazil

Incase anybody here does get burned by them. I traced there web addy..

Registrant:
MatrixMobilez.com
7805 Coit Rd
Plano, Texas 75025
United States


Administrative Contact:
Sprague, Justin blckmustnggt@thunderbirdnest.com
7805 Brushfield Drive
Plano, Texas 75025
United States
9728392101 Fax --

Ohh and he/she is the webmaster of:
http://www.thunderbirdnest.com

Good to keep this info handy, just incase.....

steven s
18 Apr 2006, 01:37
Well to be honest it's not the first one that just removed or replaced it.That does suck but look at those +300 installs. I bet 90% respect your copyright and leave it intact.

What goes around comes around.
I volunteer for my car club. We always have one person out of hundreds if not thousands who complain about something. I almost want to quit each time. But knowing that most people appreciate what I do keeps me there. I hope you can feel the same way. Mods that I add to my site are always big hits. My members love them and know perfectly well there are not mine. They are just glad I found them.

Hang in there. Don't let a few ingrates ruin your day.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/member.php?u=27481
Ooops. Someone already posted it.

Freesteyelz
18 Apr 2006, 01:58
Dont agree with the naming and shaming policy .. The problem with this is that if someone is incorrectly accused, then there name is tarnished ... It makes no difference whether it`s found to be an incorrect accusation or not, there will always be the doubt in peoples minds ...

The "False Positive" rings so true.


stonyarc: First, I understand your frustration and you have the right to feel as you do. Now, the internet laws are sketchy, with U.S. being more strict but still. Even if you can prove that your code's copyright was violated, unless you can show that the modifying of the codes or removal of the copyright has damaged you monetarily, you have limited legal options. Contacting the ISP, not the forum admininistrator(s) as they may be the culprit(s), is one option and sometimes will work. Though, a bit drastic, maybe. :classic:

derekivey
18 Apr 2006, 02:10
Yup I had similar things happen to me. This one site (don't know what language it is in), posted some of my hacks on there, attachments and all. I specifically say that I do not allow redistribution without my written permission. I never could get it removed (the admin ignored my emails). I just gave up trying thinking it wasn't worth the trouble.

Erwin
18 Apr 2006, 03:01
Btw, that looks like a great hack. :)

KW802
18 Apr 2006, 03:41
I find it a bit ironic that at least one person in this thread has had problems with people redistributing their stuff while at the same time they have a link in their sig to a site where a staff member of said site is one of the biggest vBulletin pirates in the community right now.

derekivey
18 Apr 2006, 11:01
Uhh, I'm sorry but I cannot control the actions of others. Who the heck is this person you are talking about anyway? Whats their username so I can get the owner of that site to look into them?

Thanks,
Derek

Code Monkey
18 Apr 2006, 15:14
Uhh, I'm sorry but I cannot control the actions of others. Who the heck is this person you are talking about anyway? Whats their username so I can get the owner of that site to look into them?

Thanks,
Derek

Why would you assume he meant you? ;)

ranger2kxlt
18 Apr 2006, 15:51
Hey guys, I am one of the admins of the above mentioned website. I sincerely apologize for any harm caused because of this entire matter. I was not the admin that installed this hack, nor did I know he had removed the copyright or editted it. I went through and made sure i replaced it exactly the way it was originally.

Thanks to those of you who made me aware of this situation.

Once again, I do apologize.

grundybin
18 Apr 2006, 16:56
Well to be honest it's not the first one that just removed or replaced it.

And even some people claim they don't install just for that reason.

I wonder why vbulletin.org hasn't created a copyright protection policy we can all use.
Margonem (http://online.freeware.info.pl/margonem.html)
I would hate to have to integrate a call home function

Wanting to protect your work is your right.

A call home function ? Sorry your on the wrong site stonyarc. www.microsoft.com is maybe what your looking for. They're good at things like that.

Brad
18 Apr 2006, 17:27
You do know there is a call home in the vBulletin admin cp to get the latest version number correct?

A call home itself is not a bad thing..

stonyarc
18 Apr 2006, 17:47
Wanting to protect your work is your right.

A call home function ? Sorry your on the wrong site stonyarc. www.microsoft.com is maybe what your looking for. They're good at things like that.

I work closely with Microsoft on a lot of Xbox related matters and things have changed a lot.

I can tell you that first hand.

Call home serves a purpose in several matters not the least in version control. It's a lot more handy for us if the hacks checks for the latest version.

Hey guys, I am one of the admins of the above mentioned website. I sincerely apologize for any harm caused because of this entire matter. I was not the admin that installed this hack, nor did I know he had removed the copyright or editted it. I went through and made sure i replaced it exactly the way it was originally.

Thanks to those of you who made me aware of this situation.

Once again, I do apologize.

Thank you for correcting the issue.

It should never have happened but it's done.

derekivey
18 Apr 2006, 19:42
Why would you assume he meant you? ;)

I thought it was me because he mentioned someone had problems with people redistributing hacks, and I think I was the only one that said that...

stonyarc
19 Apr 2006, 17:02
It all comes down to basic respect.

If you just see how some of the people "demand" support or talk to you if they cannot get something installed it's just amazing.

It's a hobby and passion for all of us nothing more nothing less

"IT would be so nice without users" :D :D

captainandy
20 Apr 2006, 19:32
i - for one of many - thank you for the kind of work you've done.. I think that there should be a better way to check such people from downloading or participating in an 'honor system'...