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View Full Version : Did the criteria for Coder titles drop majorly recently?


kall
02 May 2006, 07:02
I just saw a 'Coder' with one hack, 62 installs.

IIRC, this would have resulted in them being still a Member prior to 3.5.x

Ntfu2
02 May 2006, 07:21
dunno, i removed mine once already, but it came back

Paul M
02 May 2006, 08:07
1 hack, 10 installs used to get you coder as I recall.

Xenon
02 May 2006, 18:38
Paul is right, since we made that title it always was one hack and 10 installs, that didn'T change with the new system

antialiasis
02 May 2006, 18:47
I became a coder with two hacks and seven or eight installs, I believe...

Chris-777
04 May 2006, 14:17
I don't know how I ended up being Designer with 48 installs, but I dig it. :D

peterska2
04 May 2006, 14:52
I think the coder/designer ones are still one release 10 installs, or there abouts. It's the top end ones that seem to be getting lower as time goes on, or at least people are coming in, are releasing stuff for like 2 months and are master coders. Seems rather fishy to me.

Logikos
04 May 2006, 15:26
I remember reading a rather old post.

Coder: 1 hack with 10 or more installs. Advanced Coder: 10 hacks with 20 or 30 install or more per hack released and Master Coder: 15 or 20 Hacks released with 40 or more installs per hack released.

I know the above isn't correct since not all my hacks have 20-40 or more installs, so I'm sure its an average # of some sort. This is a big secrect so don't tell anyone okay? :p

Brad
04 May 2006, 20:52
We just put names on a dart board and give the status to the names we happen to hit.

Tralala
04 May 2006, 21:09
Did the criteria for Coder titles drop majorly recently?

Apparently. Because as of today... I've become a Coder.

Go figger. :D

davidw
04 May 2006, 21:11
We just put names on a dart board and give the status to the names we happen to hit.That explains how I got my title... would you look at that. Makes sense now. :beard:

Paul M
04 May 2006, 21:54
Apparently. Because as of today... I've become a Coder.

Go figger. :DYou have 1 hack, 16 installs, therefore you qualify. Seems plain enough to me. :)

Roms
04 May 2006, 22:00
How about making a chart with the member levels... ;)

ZombieAndy
04 May 2006, 22:14
i think you should tighten it up abit, there's too many sub-standard and pointless hacks out there with more then 10 installs and people getting "coder" or "designer" status for them.

ive even seen people admit that they make plug-ins which do the job of simple template edits just to get the coder status. pathetic.

Tralala
04 May 2006, 22:31
You have 1 hack, 16 installs, therefore you qualify. Seems plain enough to me. :)

No, I know, I was just kidding around.

In the last few months here, I'm reading as much as I can, tinkering, and am learning quickly... it's been a wonderfully enlightening new hobby for me... but to think of myself as a "Coder" just makes me giggle, is all. :cool:

Actually, the recognition and access is great. Perfect incentive to learn more and take on more challenging projects.

Code Monkey
04 May 2006, 22:45
I remember reading a rather old post.

Coder: 1 hack with 10 or more installs. Advanced Coder: 10 hacks with 20 or 30 install or more per hack released and Master Coder: 15 or 20 Hacks released with 40 or more installs per hack released.

I know the above isn't correct since not all my hacks have 20-40 or more installs, so I'm sure its an average # of some sort. This is a big secrect so don't tell anyone okay? :p

It's not. I got my Advanced title when I had 7 mods, but I have lots of installs on a few.

There are some people putting out cut&paste junk just to get a tag and see the coder forums though. Sad to see since it makes new coders (to vb moding) that put out something useful look bad as well.

Freesteyelz
04 May 2006, 23:51
Do we have a criteria of what constitutes an acceptable hack? The question may seem obvious but it isn't. If it were there wouldn't be discrepencies among the veteran members which I have noticed in various threads in a span of months. Example:

Template mods are easier to define, at least in my eyes, since it's a manipulation, extraction or addition to existing codes. Even a conditional can qualify as a template mod if it's not a common part of the vB routines. What is not easily defined is the title one receives for template mods. Just because someone can manipulate a code doesn't validate them as a "Designer"; Manipulation is just one tool Designers use for their work. Designers on a bigger front can also be coders.

So there must be a criteria for a (vB) coder and there must be a criteria for an acceptable hack.

Chris-777
05 May 2006, 00:03
i think you should tighten it up abit, there's too many sub-standard and pointless hacks out there with more then 10 installs and people getting "coder" or "designer" status for them.

ive even seen people admit that they make plug-ins which do the job of simple template edits just to get the coder status. pathetic.

Well to be fair, if it has more than 10 installs it's not pointless - people are using it.

I like Designer. Look at my sig. I have 3 hacks, almost 50 installs, and I've written four howtos. I'm not a coder, in that I don't delve into the API, but I like to think that I've done slightly more than just 'member' designates. The lower tiered title works out well for me. I feel my effort has been recognized, and that it's both fair to me as a novice coder, and fair to the "real" coders who write much more advanced mods than I have.

I might just be misjudging your tone, but it seems as though you're taking it a wee personally - don't let it bother you.

Do we have a criteria of what constitutes an acceptable hack? The question may seem obvious but it isn't. If it were there wouldn't be discrepencies among the veteran members which I have noticed in various threads in a span of months. Example:

Template mods are easier to define, at least in my eyes, since it's a manipulation, extraction or addition to existing codes. Even a conditional can qualify as a template mod if it's not a common part of the vB routines. What is not easily defined is the title one receives for template mods. Just because someone can manipulate a code doesn't validate them as a "Designer"; Manipulation is just one tool Designers use for their work. Designers on a bigger front can also be coders.

So there must be a criteria for a (vB) coder and there must be a criteria for an acceptable hack.

In my opinion, simple template mods are a design thing, not a code thing. Code = SQL/PHP raw mods. Changing up some HTML here and there is changing the design, not writing any "new" code.

.2c

Logikos
05 May 2006, 00:11
It's not. I got my Advanced title when I had 7 mods, but I have lots of installs on a few.

There are some people putting out cut&paste junk just to get a tag and see the coder forums though. Sad to see since it makes new coders (to vb moding) that put out something useful look bad as well.

A pretty little birdy told me that if you release 1 hack with with 10 or more installers, you gain the coder title. if you release 10 or more hacks and an average of 20 installers each, you will gain the Advanced coder Title. Lastly, to gain the master coder title you would have needed to released 20 or more hacks and average of 50 installers each.

Chris-777
05 May 2006, 00:16
A pretty little birdy told me that if you release 1 hack with with 10 or more installers, you gain the coder title. if you release 10 or more hacks and an average of 20 installers each, you will gain the Advanced coder Title. Lastly, to gain the master coder title you would have needed to released 20 or more hacks and average of 50 installers each.

That can't be the case, as I have 3 hacks with 10+.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/member.php?u=124739

I think we're all subject to Brad's tyrannical whim and binge drinking! ;)

peterska2
05 May 2006, 00:20
That can't be the case, as I have 3 hacks with 10+.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/member.php?u=124739

I think we're all subject to Brad's tyrannical whim and binge drinking! ;)

Yours are template mods so you come under the designer tree.

Before the designer titles came into force, I was a coder with more releases and installs than most of the advanced coders and that was really frustrating.

Chris M
05 May 2006, 00:21
We told you how it's done ;)

Chris

Logikos
05 May 2006, 00:25
Chris-777, those are for the Hack Titles. I would assume the deigner ones are the same. I don't think my birdy would lie to me on my birthday. :p

Chris M
05 May 2006, 00:27
Well you should shoot your birdy :p

Chris

Freesteyelz
05 May 2006, 00:28
my opinion, simple template mods are a design thing, not a code thing. Code = SQL/PHP raw mods. Changing up some HTML here and there is changing the design, not writing any "new" code.

.2c

A reasonable definition. :)

Logikos
05 May 2006, 00:32
I'll just let you pluck it's wings off one by one. ;)

Chris M
05 May 2006, 00:33
Cool - Authorised violence :D

Chris

Code Monkey
05 May 2006, 01:11
A pretty little birdy told me that if you release 1 hack with with 10 or more installers, you gain the coder title. if you release 10 or more hacks and an average of 20 installers each, you will gain the Advanced coder Title. Lastly, to gain the master coder title you would have needed to released 20 or more hacks and average of 50 installers each.

Well, you need to have that pretty little bird count my hacks and read my tutle. ;)

:D

peterska2
05 May 2006, 01:15
According to the calculations that someone made yesterday, then the little bird is way out.

JumpD, you are right according to those calculations.

Xenon
05 May 2006, 15:54
well, the little bird who told him, was me

and i clearly state that it WAS the way of calculating BEFORE we changed the whole system, to add designers and other things into account.

we will leave the criterias for the coder/designer status, they were planned to show that a user contributed to vb.org in a way.

the only thing i feel should be changed are the requiraances of the advenced coder parts, we get a little to much advanced coders, who aren'T relly advanced...

Code Monkey
05 May 2006, 17:23
It really should be changed for coder IMO. It's given out too easily. Even right now I see a so called mod released that is mearly a template edit. The template edit is merely copied verbatim from another area of vb with useless data still included. And the file refered to is an entire jelsoft copyright file redistributed with the name slightly changed.

This could have just been a template edit that called the existing file. Instead, this person will earn a coder title and most likely win HOTM.

Paul M
05 May 2006, 17:29
Hofm ? ;)

Code Monkey
05 May 2006, 17:35
Hofm ? ;)

No idea what you are refering to.

*wistles inocently and walks away.*

Paul M
05 May 2006, 19:38
No idea what you are refering to.

*wistles inocently and walks away.*
Last edited by JumpD : Today at 18:34 ;)

Logikos
05 May 2006, 19:50
haha, the bird was right. :p

Coder status should be alittle harder to gain then it is now. IMHO :)

Roms
05 May 2006, 23:37
I agree, if it's that easy than it's not worth having.... ;)

Does that title really count then? LOL

Xenon
06 May 2006, 14:25
well, it was that way since the beginning, be we can of course change it if the community wants...

Boofo
06 May 2006, 14:32
well, it was that way since the beginning, be we can of course change it if the community wants...

I think we DO need to change it. It seems to be going to a lot of member's heads now and getting very competitive. All the fun seems to be going out of the place these days for some reason. It sure ain't like the old Chen days anymore.

peterska2
06 May 2006, 14:52
well, it was that way since the beginning, be we can of course change it if the community wants...

Leave the coder/designer ones as they are IMO. So it goes to a few peoples heads, it doesn't matter. I'd rather have a couple of people who's heads it has gone to than pages of complaints saying 'Where's my coder/designer title gone?'.

Personally, I'd leave the whole designer side of things alone. There aren't that many designers of any level so it's not something that needs to be worried about.

As for the advanced/master coder ones, well I have a few things to say about them, but most of them are not fitting with the U rating of the site, so I will just say this one, increase the levels. Put advanced about halfway between the current advanced and master, and double the master level. Master coder is being acheived far too easily these days IMO.

I think we DO need to change it. It seems to be going to a lot of member's heads now and getting very competitive. All the fun seems to be going out of the place these days for some reason. It sure ain't like the old Chen days anymore.

It's more or less a completely different set of people from the Chen days now. Why? Coz a lot of people have got fed up with the site. There isn't the atmosphere that there used to be, and I can only go back to October '03. But that is a completely different topic, and therefore is not relevant to this thread.

Code Monkey
06 May 2006, 16:26
I just think it's the coder one that's too easy. I don't care much about the others, it's just a stupid little prize for putting out a body of work here. But the coder tag is a label that is displayed to the general public and speaks of certain qualifications.

If someone authors a body of code then they are a coder. If they copy paste/move bits around to mimick a vb function from one area to somewhere else in the forum, they are not a coder. That should have a different name so there is no confusion about qualifications to the general public.

And then there is another name for those that just outright copy someone elses code and change a table or something and release it without consent or acknowledgement. There's been a rash of that lately. But they still have the coder tag and wave it around with authority.

I don't find that to be a particularly comfortable atmosphere to release my work in. When I used to do PostNuke mods the community would never have tolerated this type of thing. Here, it all seems to be good as long as the general public gets what they want and someone gets a coder tag.

There should probably be a forum for "hacks". No one should be able to start a mod thread in the other forums until they have one existing in them. Meaning, when it's deemed they have authored a geniune code mod then it will be moved into the coders area and all rewards will apply and they may now start new hack threads there.

People that post in the "hacks" forum, or whatever it should be called. Could then apply to have their hack recognized and moved. It could be analyzed by volunteers from the existing coder base and recomondation made to staff by no less than two coders.

IF it doesn't get approved then it just stays there and they can try again. If it's deemed to be in violation it could be removed.

The point is, there is no logical process or flow here to earning rewards, or making sure that the general public isn't being asked to trust someone that doesn't really know what they are doing based on a tag that misrepresents ability.

Delphiprogrammi
06 May 2006, 16:54
well...

I don't understand the hassle.It's just a "label" below your username.Xenon can take mine away i won't even notice it has been taken away.I don't count the number of installs from the stuff i have in here.It is just a useless number that won't bring you any further ....

just my two cents

Paul M
06 May 2006, 17:32
Coder seems awfully easy to get, but then it always has been, I remember being surprised when I released my first two hacks, that it happened almost straight away.

Advanced and Master seem easier these days - you seem able to go from zero to master in just a few short months. You ought to have to be a coder for at least six months before moving to the next level.

I don't know what the hacks/installs levels are now, but I would have four levels, and set them at something like Coder = 3/75, Advanced Coder = 10/400, Senior Coder = 15/800, Master Coder = 20/2500, I would also specify that for each level, at least one hack must have a minimum install count (Coder = 20, Advanced Coder = 75, Senior Coder = 150, Master Coder = 300).

Of course, that's all just my biased opinion. :)

Xenon
06 May 2006, 17:37
actually:
Advanced Coder: 52, Master Coder: 11

there aren't much new ones in that list, it's just that a few more active new ones are here, but that minimum install count for getting a title is an interesting idea, which i might include

Roms
06 May 2006, 19:46
One hack shouldn't make someone a coder or a designer... Maybe just change the coder title to something like "Novice Coder" and then after 5 different Mods they get a coder title... Same with designer.

Why should members that haven't been around that long get a Coder title unless they really deserve it. In my opinion, members need to Contribute to the community for special titles.. ;)

davidw
06 May 2006, 20:03
I'm going to earn my wings...

Logikos
06 May 2006, 20:35
It took me years to get the master coder title. I think the Master Coder title is fine. The advanced and Coder title could be adjusted alittle to make it alittle harder to get.

Freesteyelz
06 May 2006, 23:54
Good reasoning, LiveWire. :) The issue here is really about integrity, not necessarily about (coding or designing) experience. The members who have higher titles earned it, they are seasoned and have contributed exclusively to vB.org.

While we're discussing more about Coders than Designers I think both fit into the same boat. The qualifications of a Designer is much more than what people may associate them with. If a title is given so easily then it has no meaning. It's the same with Coders' title.

When I first got "Designer" I thought it was cool but I was surprised. I'm new here and haven't payed my dues. I'm here because I like what the community is about; O and I love designing sites/boards. Without my "Designer" title it wouldn't make me any less; I'd still be here. If the reputation is being seeked there are other ways of achieving it.

Again, titles of any level to me is about integrity. :)

Logikos
07 May 2006, 02:29
I acually set a goal back then to get the Master Title. I wanted to learn how to code really bad back then, and gaining the Master Coder title was my reward. :p

Now I just want to learn more then I know now. :)

Eikinskjaldi
07 May 2006, 02:50
Really the titles don't bother me, Generally I code for people on a private client basis rather then on the public side, thats just what I do. The title only add's the benefit of the coders chat, which while a nice resource, isnt needed by me and so yes, they are right, I wouldn't notice it missing, but it is nice. :P If I was after the coder tags id be posting hacks I have made just to get there, but to what point? I don't get my clients from my little vb.org tag, I get my clients from old work iv completed. I just don't see the big deal in why people complain about it, I mean, I understand that if someone really worked for it and then saw someone who bullshitted their way to it get it as well, they would generally be angry, but is it really needed? Maybe just make a list of 10 to 100 of the best coders on the site based on the difficulty and such of their work and how much they have contributed, this could be voted or selected by people who are established coders [Above Advanced] so that those people who do feel disgusted by the hacks that are one line changers can then still have the ego and glory that they worked for by having their name on the 'list'.