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hambil
15 May 2006, 16:37
Has to go.

Simply downloading a hack should mark it as installed. If the user then decides not to install it, or later uninstalls it, they can click on uninstall (which should still be provided). This is the way updates work, btw.

I believe this will go a long ways toward fixing the numbers and some of the hard feelings.

Will some users get marked as installed and not have installed? Sure, but I am sure the percentage will be far, far fewer than the ones who install and don't click install.

Clicking install never really made sense to me.

Just my 2 cents.

peterska2
15 May 2006, 16:42
This isn't practical.

Over 400 installed hacks my installed hacks list read the other day. Most of them I had not installed on my site. I do a lot of installations for other people, and having the install button pressed on my account does not help me work out which hacks I have installed and which I haven't.

I also download hacks to have a look at them in more detail before possibly installing them to my test boards, and from there only about about 10% actually get installed on my live board. Those that do make it to my live board get the install button clicked.

If downloading resulted in an install click, then my account would probably read as literally every hack ever written for 3.5 as installed, and trust me, thats a heck of a lot of hacks.

Xenon
15 May 2006, 16:43
Actually nope.

most hacks will be downloaded and tested before installed, so i personally think, that the percentage won't be far fewer.

The updated works that way, because the user clicked install already, and wants to get informed about those things, it is not done automatically

Logikos
15 May 2006, 16:46
I often use the install button to see how a hack is progressing. I like getting emails to remind me. I also click the install link if I like the hack and want to come back to it at a later time.

hambil
15 May 2006, 16:47
The same people who don't know how to use the install button, will be the ones who don't know how to use the uninstall button. I believe the numbers will be more accurate. Will someone like peterska2 need to click 'uninstall' more often, yes, but that is a small price to pay to remove the entire issue of users not clicking install and all the hard feelings and support issues it creates.

Chris M
15 May 2006, 16:49
The "Install" button should be made to "Installed" or "Mark as installed" or something more clear, but not removed...

Chris

Logikos
15 May 2006, 16:49
I agree with Chris on this one.

hambil
15 May 2006, 16:50
At a minimum it would be nice to see a 'downloaded' count, so we can compare it against the installed. And even possibly a 'downloaded' vs. 'installed' in the users postbit.

Edit:
And perhaps an auto 'install' reminder to users when they download.

Logikos
15 May 2006, 16:51
We used to have the # of downloads shown, not sure why this was taken away. but this is a standered feature in vBulletin.

Xenon
15 May 2006, 16:53
Actually that button is "Installed" already since a long time, or i may be blind...:

https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/
i have changed the textlink now

Chris M
15 May 2006, 16:53
It isn't on Smooth Blue Stefan :)

Chris

Chroder
15 May 2006, 16:53
The problem with that is it only counted the downloads on one file. If you removed a file and uploaded a new one (an update to your hack, lets say), the count would go back to 0 wouldn't it? That makes it pretty useless... Perhaps a new plugin that kept track of all downloads.

peterska2
15 May 2006, 16:53
hambil, try clicking install on 400 mods, then having to go through and individually click uninstall on 350 of them. It takes a long time, as well as having to sort through them and remember what you actually have installed. I think it took something like 2 hours to get rid of all these excess installs from my installed hacks list. That's unaceeptable, especially as I cleared it out just after Christmas when I took my second site to 3.5.

The install button is only a courtesy, it should not be forced upon users. IF someone doesn't want to click install, then they shouldn't have too. Yes they won't get the update emails, but for some people that doesn't matter anyway.

LiveWire, Have you heard of subscribed threads? Try using them instead of the install button. It is much more accurate for the rest of the coders on their install count if people do not use the install button to bookmark threads. The subscribed threads supports multiple folders, so there is nothing stopping you from having a folder for installed hacks, one for possible installs, and one for watching with interest.

Xenon
15 May 2006, 16:55
It isn't on Smooth Blue Stefan :)

Chris

ahh, that explained it

Let me do something i like to do:

BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD ;)

Logikos
15 May 2006, 16:55
LiveWire, Have you heard of subscribed threads?
Nope never heard of it.

peterska2
15 May 2006, 16:55
At a minimum it would be nice to see a 'downloaded' count, so we can compare it against the installed. And even possibly a 'downloaded' vs. 'installed' in the users postbit.

Edit:
And perhaps an auto 'install' reminder to users when they download.

We used to have the # of downloads shown, not sure why this was taken away. but this is a standered feature in vBulletin.


You can view the number of times a hack has been downloaded via the attachments page in the UserCP. There is no need, IMO, to duplicate this information.

hambil
15 May 2006, 16:57
The install button is only a courtesy, it should not be forced upon users. IF someone doesn't want to click install, then they shouldn't have too.
Well, if someone doesn't want a vbulletin license, they shouldn't have to buy one. Paying is only a courtesy...

My point - install numbers are our currency.

Logikos
15 May 2006, 16:57
Having the download count in the hack thread is only logical.

Chris M
15 May 2006, 16:58
Well, if someone doesn't want a vbulletin license, they shouldn't have to buy one. Paying is only a courtesy...

My point - install numbers are our currency.
I disagree - I personally do not believe that install counts are the be-all and end-all of everything :)

Chris

peterska2
15 May 2006, 16:58
Nope never heard of it.

I recommend that you familiarize yourself with standard features then via www.vbulletin.com/docs (http://www.vbulletin.com/docs) ;)

Chris M
15 May 2006, 16:58
Having the download count in the hack thread is only logical.
I would like to see this actually, just out of interest in the "Install : Download" ratio :)

Chris

hambil
15 May 2006, 17:00
I disagree - I personally do not believe that install counts are the be-all and end-all of everything :)

Chris
I didn't say they where, but they are our currency. They control hack of the month, they control your status (coder, advanced coder, master coder) they probably even control who will get invited to the meeting to discuss the direction of vb.org.

Chroder
15 May 2006, 17:01
Install should only be clicked when a user is actually using it. Just because they download it, doesn't mean they install it or are actually using it. If it were done automatically, then the caption 'installed' would be erroneous.

I like the idea of a public display of downloads though.

Chris M
15 May 2006, 17:02
Hack of the month is changing, as will titles...

And as for who gets invited to the meeting, that is probably not something that will be dictated entirely on number of installs...

Chris

hambil
15 May 2006, 17:02
You can view the number of times a hack has been downloaded via the attachments page in the UserCP. There is no need, IMO, to duplicate this information. Except for as Chroder pointed out, these numbers are not accurate.

Hack of the month is changing, as will titles...

And as for who gets invited to the meeting, that is probably not something that will be dictated entirely on number of installs...

Chris
So if installs don't matter, remove it entirely. Of course not, because they do matter, in many ways. Why deny that? I don't understand.

Logikos
15 May 2006, 17:05
I recommend that you familiarize yourself with standard features then via www.vbulletin.com/docs (http://www.vbulletin.com/docs) ;)
Hey when did Jelsoft add this page?

Princeton
15 May 2006, 17:06
(click) should never be forced.

I believe the whole "install" feature should be abadoned.

Just like you, some of us have offered solution(s). Not only pertaining to the "install" issue but to alot of things.

I think we need a system that will demote usertitles not just promote (based on user actions).

hambil
15 May 2006, 17:06
In the real world, if you buy something you pay for it first. Then if you don't like it you return it and get a refund. You don't take it home, decide if you like it, and then maybe pay for it or maybe not even though you are using it.

Paul M
15 May 2006, 17:07
Well I tried a different approach - have the hack itself tell vb.org when it was installed or uninstalled - in theory it should have been more accurate - in reality it hasn't actually worked very well - and now it seems to have caused another big storm in a teacup oh well :(

MThornback
15 May 2006, 17:08
Hack of the month is changing, as will titles...

And as for who gets invited to the meeting, that is probably not something that will be dictated entirely on number of installs...

Chris

Well the question this begs is...will the new system your mentioning take more accurate and properly definable information into consideration? Because if it will...than the install button can BE just a courtesy and coders and designers can be recognized a different way with the same or more benifits.

The Chief
15 May 2006, 17:09
(click) should never be forced.

I believe the whole "install" feature should be abadoned.

Just like you, some of us have offered solution(s). Not only pertaining to the "install" issue but to alot of things.

I think we need a system that will demote usertitles not just promote (based on user actions).
Yes, I also agree on this.

Number on downloads would mean the number of installs the person gets, not necessarily meaning the person actually installed the hack.

As this would give credit to the author of the hack and would limit the number of downloads, the author would also need to explain their first post better and post screenshots :)

Chris M
15 May 2006, 17:09
Except for as Chroder pointed out, these numbers are not accurate.


So if installs don't matter, remove it entirely. Of course not, because they do matter, in many ways. Why deny that? I don't understand.
Installs served a function in the past, but now the only function they will serve is to give some idea how many people are using and subscribing to the updates of the hack...

Chris

Chris M
15 May 2006, 17:11
Well the question this begs is...will the new system your mentioning take more accurate and properly definable information into consideration? Because if it will...than the install button can BE just a courtesy and coders and designers can be recognized a different way with the same or more benifits.
The title system will be changing to include other factors other than just install counts - Thats all I will say for now, but some titles will only be awarded manually not automatically with the new system...

Chris

hambil
15 May 2006, 17:19
The title system will be changing to include other factors other than just install counts - Thats all I will say for now, but some titles will only be awarded manually not automatically with the new system...

Chris
That's good to hear. I just hope it isn't shrouded in unnecessary secrecy. We can't live up to standards or strive for achieve goals we aren't aware of.

Chris M
15 May 2006, 17:25
It won't be shrouded in secrecy, but the current elements and factors which will affect your title are still somewhat undecided ;)

Therefore, instead of posting some requirements at this stage that may no longer be a factor in the final system change, its better to be as vague about what factors will be included :)

Chris

Marco van Herwaarden
15 May 2006, 17:34
/me always clicks install on his own hacks to increase the install count, and because a hack with zero install looks so stupid.

hambil
15 May 2006, 17:48
* MarcoH64 always clicks install on his own hacks to increase the install count, and because a hack with zero install looks so stupid.
Hey, I didn't know the '/ me' hack was installed here. BTW: It doesn't work in subscription emails - just an FYI to whoever's version you are using.

Chris M
15 May 2006, 17:53
/me was unaware of that :)

Thanks for pointing that out - I'll do a holler.....

SSSSSTTTTEEEEEEFFFFFFAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNN!!!!!!! :D

Chris

Xenon
15 May 2006, 19:01
shhhh, i did not hear you ^^

Chris M
15 May 2006, 19:03
There is no spoon... I mean post... I mean there... I there spoon...

Ok now I'm confused :ermm:

Chris

Freesteyelz
16 May 2006, 02:22
Well, I'm glad that this (topic's) idea isn't a standard of consumer life. I'd hate to have to pay up-front for every car I test drive.

A downloads indicator idea is not a bad one, however. :)

Tralala
16 May 2006, 02:24
Well, I'm glad that this (topic's) idea isn't a standard of consumer life. I'd hate to have to pay up-front for every car I test drive.


You're equating the click of the "install" button with paying?

Freesteyelz
16 May 2006, 02:29
It was an indirect reply to hambil's post below:

Well, if someone doesn't want a vbulletin license, they shouldn't have to buy one. Paying is only a courtesy...

My point - install numbers are our currency.

hambil
16 May 2006, 03:47
It was an indirect reply to hambil's post below:
I guess I missed the vBulletin test drive. Maybe I didn't look on the right part of their site?

Freesteyelz
16 May 2006, 04:22
It's a Monday. At that time of my post it was the best analogy I could come up with that had a chance of making sense. :)