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Erwin
18 May 2006, 11:32
Hi all

I've stepped down as Admin. Being an Admin on this site has become impossible - it's one thing that I have to keep consulting Jelsoft as this is their site after all, but it's another thing that as an Admin I can't even implement strategies to get things done on the site because Mods disagree with it. It's no way to run a forum site, and I've run forums with over 100 staff.

Since my hands are completely tied as an Admin on this site, there's really no point hanging around and feeling helpless, so I've just stepped down. What's the point really.

I've got better things to do (like my day job running a cancer hospital, or managing my own forums) to be stressed over something I should be enjoying as a hobby.

Thanks for having me around. It's been a great experience.

Stefan or Brad, please change my user title - I can't remove it as I've changed myself back to Licensed.

FleaBag
18 May 2006, 11:36
Nice one Erwin. I think you've done a good job where you could, I've always thought of you as 'for the people' so to speak. You've helped me many times and created some great hacks in your time, especially for vB2. I didn't realise you worked in a cancer hospital, I think it's amazing you've chosen to help people live as your career. Good luck (as I can tell from your post that there'll be no changing your mind) and take care! Hopefully you'll still be around. :)

Boofo
18 May 2006, 11:48
Erwin, please clear some PMs.

smacklan
18 May 2006, 12:01
I completely understand your decision Erwin and wish you all the best! You are a true gentleman of the internet and the org has been fortunate to have had you serve! Hope it gets back to being that "enjoyable hobby" for you :)

MPDev
18 May 2006, 12:03
Best of luck in your endevors; if you aren't enjoying it, then I totally understand. If there is room for compromise and conditions change I hope you'll reconsider.

FleaBag
18 May 2006, 12:15
You are a true gentleman of the internet

I have never heard that said before; I think it is the most appropriate thing to say!

smacklan
18 May 2006, 12:27
I have never heard that said before; I think it is the most appropriate thing to say!
I think I first heard John, theMusicMan, use it to describe someone once...yes, I think it describes Erwin as well :)

Dean C
18 May 2006, 12:28
I share your frustrations Erwin and wish you and your family the best :)

Mosh
18 May 2006, 12:33
I don't post that all that often, but I would like to say that you will be missed as Admin here, I hope that you stick around and continue to help the peeps out (including myself) with your wise advice :)

I can understand why under the current climate of the site, I have been doing a lot of lurking of late as I do not feel compelled to add additional oil to the flames, they are hot enough as it is.

Good luck with all of your endeavours :)

bairy
18 May 2006, 12:38
Erwin,
I'm not a big vb.org user. Though I have followed this whole yes/no/maybe coders/staff thing recently.

I haven't had any dealings with you that I'm aware of, I just wanted to say that you posted this the other day:
But it's no excuse to make people wait for months and months based on a promise we haven't delivered too. It's time we have some action rather than just talk.
And I sense just that phrase gave you a whole heap of respect. Not just because the communication did lack, but because for any staff member to essentially say "Hey, we screwed up, sorry" takes great courage.

Based on that sentiment alone, I think this decision is a loss to the staff team.

Bhuwan
18 May 2006, 13:07
say it aint so Dr. Erwin! say it aint so!

Zachariah
18 May 2006, 13:49
Good luck Sir.

Thank You for your time and energy.

Rich
18 May 2006, 13:50
I wish you the best Erwin and hope you still frequent the site. The beautiful things about these sites is that once they get too stressful and are no longer pleasurable, you can just walk away. You will be missed I am sure.

hambil
18 May 2006, 13:55
This is definately a set back. I don't know about your four year career hear but you where a great voice of reason the last few days.

Thank you, and good luck.

peterska2
18 May 2006, 14:11
Thanks for all your work, time and effort Erwin.

You'll be missed as an admin, I'm sure.

I hope you still stick around though and don't drop off the face of the planet.

Take Care,

Kerry-Anne

Revan
18 May 2006, 14:15
Well this will certainly add fuel to the fire.

Thank you for trying, Erwin. You have my utmost respect for trying your very best to change the way this forum works for the better. You shall be missed, indeed.

hambil
18 May 2006, 14:21
as an Admin I can't even implement strategies to get things done on the site because Mods disagree with it.
What a strange way to run a site. On my site, as I would guess is true with most sites, if an Admin and a Mod disagree, the site gets a new mod.

However, hambil, do you really replace mods just because they have a different opinion or do you mean general (big) disagreeances?

Woah - your post just disappeared.

I mean big differences - like the one in question here would appear to be.

The Geek
18 May 2006, 14:52
This is a great blow to making things move forward in a positive way.

When people stand down because of frustrations with getting things done, there are that many fewer people that will try to get things done.

Less leadership != Good thing

However I respect your decision and wish you the best, I just think from a selfish angle it sucks ass.

You will be missed.

bairy
18 May 2006, 15:00
hambil - yeah I deleted it shortly after posting. I realised it may to cause a whole debate about the whos and whys of admin and mods, and I didn't want to hijack Erwin's thread.

EricaJoy
18 May 2006, 15:06
While I hate to see you go, I can't understand this logic..

Admin < Moderators

Errrr exactly how does that work? Is that by request of Jelsoft or ?

Xenon
18 May 2006, 15:25
I wish you a very farewell Erwin, i will truely miss you.

As for all the others, i can just say, that we don't have a good time these days, but you have noticed that yourself. Please all consider, that we are humans as well, there was a lot of talk about no respect and frustration the last days by coders, but some seems to forget, that frustration can also hit staff members. I won'T go into more details now, Erwins descision makes it harder for me and the rest of the team to bring the site back up to what it was, so all i'd like to asky all of you is: try to be patient, and don'T bring in more fuel to the fire.

Lottis
18 May 2006, 15:44
Well this will certainly add fuel to the fire.

Thank you for trying, Erwin. You have my utmost respect for trying your very best to change the way this forum works for the better. You shall be missed, indeed.
Hear hear. Im not quite shure, but i dont have a good feeling about everything that happens in here.
:confused:

I wish you a very farewell Erwin, i will truely miss you.

As for all the others, i can just say, that we don't have a good time these days, but you have noticed that yourself. Please all consider, that we are humans as well, there was a lot of talk about no respect and frustration the last days by coders, but some seems to forget, that frustration can also hit staff members. I won'T go into more details now, Erwins descision makes it harder for me and the rest of the team to bring the site back up to what it was, so all i'd like to asky all of you is: try to be patient, and don'T bring in more fuel to the fire.
Its about time, the mods is willing to do some changes in here. What do you expect, when we members are sitting on the side and see how things turn.
This is no good for VBorg ang vBulletins reputation.

GamerzWorld
18 May 2006, 18:05
Goodbye and goodluck :)

Dan
18 May 2006, 18:12
You shall sorely be missed Erwin, we all know you where a great admin. But with the mods disagreeing with everything you want to do, I think is rather wrong. But good luck and have fun, Hope to see you around the forums :)

Logikos
18 May 2006, 18:17
wow, this was unexpected! I wish you luck with your ventures in life. Hope you will still come around from time to time! :(

The Chief
18 May 2006, 18:53
Thanks for your time and efforts Erwin, wish you the best of luck in life :)

MPDev
18 May 2006, 19:07
It can wear on the best of people when their members express themselves poorly when critizing the administration of a site. I have no doubt that if those who whined the most had just spent a little extra effort trying to get their point across without being rude and condesending in the process, then it wouldn't have gone down like this.

What has changed is not the people who run the site, its the people who use the site. Over the years the ratio of coders to leechers has declined considerably and some of those who are coders have developed a sense of entitlement.

Anyone who admins a site here knows exactly what I am trying to say.

hambil
18 May 2006, 19:09
Anyone who admins a site here knows exactly what I am trying to say.
That vb users who pay for the privilage of accessing this site are leeches?

The Geek
18 May 2006, 19:11
It can wear on the best of people when their members express themselves poorly when critizing the administration of a site.
or users for that matter ;)

Daniel
18 May 2006, 19:11
Best of luck to you Mr. Erwin. Thanks for everything.

Ntfu2
18 May 2006, 19:12
Goodluck Erwin.

I've gained a great deal of vB knowledge from some of your posts

Roms
18 May 2006, 21:52
Erwin;

Thank you for all your time and effort.

You'll be missed, I hope you continue to visit the community from time to time....

Take care,
Roms :)

Snake
18 May 2006, 21:54
Hey does that mean I'll be having your position? Just kidding. :P

Man you have done a great job for vB.org so thanks for your support and everything. :)

Paul M
18 May 2006, 21:58
Strange, I always thought admins ran a site and had the final decision ?

Anyway, Good luck in whatever you do now Erwin.

Hopefully VBO will survive all these events and emerge a better place. :)

akanevsky
18 May 2006, 23:03
This is messed up. I never heard of an admin being prevented from action by a moderator... Instead of resigning, I'd change staff organization around a little.

Xenon
18 May 2006, 23:19
as far as i can remember we are currently working on the restructurization ;)

Kirk Y
19 May 2006, 03:19
We'll miss you Erwin. All the work and effort you put into this site is commendable, and we thank you for all of it. Good luck with everything.

Tralala
19 May 2006, 03:33
And I sense just that phrase gave you a whole heap of respect. Not just because the communication did lack, but because for any staff member to essentially say "Hey, we screwed up, sorry" takes great courage.

Based on that sentiment alone, I think this decision is a loss to the staff team.

He was also the only one who had the class to publicly apologize: (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?p=976894#post976894)

I apologise on behalf of any staff who might have said something that was misconstrued to mean that members and coders are not appreciated. Coders are the life-blood of this site. We are trying to work out a way where coders will feel more appreciated. Please be patient.

With that post I recognized Erwin as an adult, with a clear vision and an eye on "the bigger picture." It's too bad he was a lone voice amidst the din. He gave me hope that the was a light at the end of the tunnel.

I'll kick back and see what developments are in the works for change around here; based on what I've seen over the last week though, I'm not optimistic.

Erwin, you will be missed.

Freesteyelz
19 May 2006, 04:57
I've only had the pleasure of knowing you a short time, Erwin. I was looking forward to future conversations. Anyway, take care and continue to do good at the hospital. :)

noppid
19 May 2006, 05:22
Hi all

I've stepped down as Admin. Being an Admin on this site has become impossible - it's one thing that I have to keep consulting Jelsoft as this is their site after all, but it's another thing that as an Admin I can't even implement strategies to get things done on the site because Mods disagree with it. It's no way to run a forum site, and I've run forums with over 100 staff.

Since my hands are completely tied as an Admin on this site, there's really no point hanging around and feeling helpless, so I've just stepped down. What's the point really.

I've got better things to do (like my day job running a cancer hospital, or managing my own forums) to be stressed over something I should be enjoying as a hobby.

Thanks for having me around. It's been a great experience.

Stefan or Brad, please change my user title - I can't remove it as I've changed myself back to Licensed.


Best wishes Erwin. You're a good man and an asset that I'm sure will be missed at the org.

joeychgo
19 May 2006, 05:31
This is a tremendous loss for the community. I hope the remaining staff rises to the occasion and realizes that some major changes need to take place. I am sure some do, I only hope they are not discouraged.

Erwin, you'll be missed.

kira
19 May 2006, 06:04
I agree with everyone here. Erwin, as long as I've been part of this community (since '01 or so), I've seen you consistently display knowledge, courtesy, humor and creativity. Personally I've been in awe of your ingenuity as well: sometimes it seems like every other hack I've installed on my vB 2.x.x. forum was created or adapted by either you or Chen!

Your posts over the past few days have shown true leadership and grace. I wish you'd change your mind, but I can't say I blame you for stepping down if you find it frustrating and detrimental to yourself. It also sends a useful message: sometimes resignation is the best way to stay true to your own values ... a kind of protest, in a way. (I sure wish folks in Washington DC would show as much dignity and self-respect!!!)

Anyway, best wishes to you and many many thanks for all your help over the years.

gothicuser
19 May 2006, 06:33
I can only agree with the others and say that you'll be sorely missed, and good luck and wishes for you and yours in the future.

Erwin
19 May 2006, 06:42
I'll make a final post here so that people know exactly why I stepped down to avoid any rumor or gossip.

As everyone knows, there has been talked of a hack database and a paid mod directory for many months. Now, we know that the hack database has been in development for well over 6 months if not longer. I won't go on about it.

It was recently agreed (about a week ago) that the paid mod directory can go ahead by Jelsoft (before it was either denied or it was unclear if we could). Great news I thought. So I pushed for it to be implemented.

Wayne suggested that using an existing script instead of coding one from scratch would be a good idea and I agreed since this would avoid the problems of the hack database. I didn't want a paid mod directory to have to wait another 6 months before coming online. Well, I won't name anyone but let's just say that even though I pushed to use an existing script which we can modify for our own use, certain individuals pushed for a custom code. Now, if the Admin can't implement a strategy so that an objective is reached sooner for the members of the site, then there's no longer any point of him staying is there.

Therefore, all I can say is - have fun waiting for your hack database and paid mod directory. :) I'm sorry to post a pessimistic post like this, but that's how I feel about this whole situation at the moment.

P.S. Staff here are not paid but they do get their vBulletin license for free. Well, I am proud to say that I for one have NEVER taken up the offer and have ALWAYS paid for my vBulletin license - basically because I wanted to make it clear that I am a complete unpaid volunteer on this site and do it out of my love and passion for the forum software. My conscience is clear and there has never been an issue of a conflict of interest on my part.

So long and thanks for the fish! :)

Lottis
19 May 2006, 06:43
Hepp, Erwin. You are gonne stay as a membmer? Ore?
You can from now on step in as the rebbelian member. *giggels*

tehste
19 May 2006, 07:38
You were a great Admin on vborg. I have little faith in the direction of the site now that you have (actually) gone you kinda resigned ages ago but you must have got through the problem or something. vborg shouldn't be run by adolescents and it was a good thing that a guy like you (without the over-ego) was high up. See you around :)

bairy
19 May 2006, 08:19
Honestly, I think that yes there have been times when they could have been a bit more communicative and yes it does seem that "nothing gets done" but do remember all the quiet stuff that happens, such as thread moving.
You also have to remember that no one has been banned over this so far as I've seen. Granted, it would have been really really stupid to start banning people who talk back and probably would have started a riot, but, I have known admins who would ban you simply because you dare talk back to them.
I'm not saying the admin are perfect but lets not forget that they do some stuff day to day and they have actually started to listen and respond, even if it did take a few twisted arms to get things kicked off.


I have little faith in the direction of the site now that you have (actually) gone
I think the vb.org staff have had a bit of a beating from the members, and another from vb.com.
It's obviously been enough to kick them pretty hard in the pants as is evident by the fact we've heard more from them in the last week than for the whole of 2006.
Based on past performance, being wary is understandable, but I'd say give it a couple more weeks while they sort themselves out and get through all these replies, and then make a judgement.

Azhrialilu
19 May 2006, 09:03
:( sad news indeed. What can be said that hasn't already? One of the foundation block of org has crumbled. I only hope that the workmen they get in to build a new one are capable of taking on such a daunting task.

I have nothing but respect for you Erwin, I hope everything in your life goes more smoothly than the past x months on org (and I'll see you around on TAZ ;) )

Ohiosweetheart
19 May 2006, 11:32
This is definately a set back. I don't know about your four year career hear but you where a great voice of reason the last few days.

Thank you, and good luck.

I totally agree with this sentiment.

I my heart just sank a bit. If, after all the talk and promises we've heard the past few days from various .com and .org admins and higher-ups, you still felt the need to step down... I don't hold out much hope for .org. Sad day... very, very sad day.

You'll be missed Erwin

Strange, I always thought admins ran a site and had the final decision ?
This is messed up. I never heard of an admin being prevented from action by a moderator... Instead of resigning, I'd change staff organization around a little.

exactly. Why do the moderators have such a great say here that Admins can't implement things? On my forum, a moderator is there to help members, and yes discuss things with admins and be a sounding board, but they have nothing to say about the ultimate deision. The buck stops with the admins and the admins ONLY.


What a strange way to run a site. On my site, as I would guess is true with most sites, if an Admin and a Mod disagree, the site gets a new mod.

totally agree, if it's a big enough difference, I'd replace a mod before I'd lose ANY good admins like Erwin.
Now I'm seeing a bit better, one of the reasons .org is in the shape it's in.

as far as i can remember we are currently working on the restructurization ;)

if that is so, Erwin shouldn't have felt the need to resign. Obviously, he sees little hope as well.

sabret00the
19 May 2006, 13:18
Hi all

I've stepped down as Admin. Being an Admin on this site has become impossible - it's one thing that I have to keep consulting Jelsoft as this is their site after all, but it's another thing that as an Admin I can't even implement strategies to get things done on the site because Mods disagree with it. It's no way to run a forum site, and I've run forums with over 100 staff.

Since my hands are completely tied as an Admin on this site, there's really no point hanging around and feeling helpless, so I've just stepped down. What's the point really.

I've got better things to do (like my day job running a cancer hospital, or managing my own forums) to be stressed over something I should be enjoying as a hobby.

Thanks for having me around. It's been a great experience.

Stefan or Brad, please change my user title - I can't remove it as I've changed myself back to Licensed.
Big big loss, i really liked you as an admin. And to lose you over red tape is ludicrous. you're a good man, hope you'll still be here in spits and spats at least.

I'll make a final post here so that people know exactly why I stepped down to avoid any rumor or gossip.

As everyone knows, there has been talked of a hack database and a paid mod directory for many months. Now, we know that the hack database has been in development for well over 6 months if not longer. I won't go on about it.

It was recently agreed (about a week ago) that the paid mod directory can go ahead by Jelsoft (before it was either denied or it was unclear if we could). Great news I thought. So I pushed for it to be implemented.

Wayne suggested that using an existing script instead of coding one from scratch would be a good idea and I agreed since this would avoid the problems of the hack database. I didn't want a paid mod directory to have to wait another 6 months before coming online. Well, I won't name anyone but let's just say that even though I pushed to use an existing script which we can modify for our own use, certain individuals pushed for a custom code. Now, if the Admin can't implement a strategy so that an objective is reached sooner for the members of the site, then there's no longer any point of him staying is there.

Therefore, all I can say is - have fun waiting for your hack database and paid mod directory. :) I'm sorry to post a pessimistic post like this, but that's how I feel about this whole situation at the moment.

P.S. Staff here are not paid but they do get their vBulletin license for free. Well, I am proud to say that I for one have NEVER taken up the offer and have ALWAYS paid for my vBulletin license - basically because I wanted to make it clear that I am a complete unpaid volunteer on this site and do it out of my love and passion for the forum software. My conscience is clear and there has never been an issue of a conflict of interest on my part.

So long and thanks for the fish! :)
Stefan mentioned that there's a restructure in place? will that prevent things like this happening again? a site should be administered by Admins and moderated by Mods. I'm quite disappointed that heirachy seems to be limited to aesthetics.

Xenon
19 May 2006, 14:42
Well, to tell the truth, i am not happy with what Erwin did here, and post some internals public. I have a great respect for him, but that wasn't really needed, and just makes it harder for myself and the rest.

Yes, the way we did run vb.org wasn't that good in the last month, it seems that such a big site needs more of an hierachial structure, and not such a democratic way of descissions we did in the past. But that's a mistake Erwin, myself and Brad made. We were the admins, and handled it this way. This way has lead to problems, that's bad. Actually a mod who disagreed with Erwin on a specific topic was now mentioned as the reason for Erwins step down. But that's not the only reason. For example i had the same opinion as the mentioned Moderator, and therefore, it was not just a mod who made it harder for Erwin, but also an Admin, namely me.

I want to excuse to those who got into the weels of our System. As i said, we namely Erwin, Brad and myself as Administrators during that time, are responsible, that it got that far. Everyone has to draw the consequences. I was close to resign myself, but i think the better way would be to bring vb.org back to what it was. That's why the structure of vb.org's staff will be changed deeply now.

We have three Admins, ever admin has his resort and is absolutelly responsible for his resort. If a member of the staff makes problems, then the Admin has and will take the needed actions. Also as admin of one resort, we won't interact into the other resorts, apert from 'giving a little help when there is a question'. Descission are made in the way they need to be made.

General descisions of vb.org will be made by all three Admins in a democratical way. Descissions in the specific resorts will be made by the group leader, and the staff will have to follow. Of course, we will always have an open ear for suggestions, but the final descission is made by the Admins.

Soa situation like that shouldn't appear anymore.

sabret00the
19 May 2006, 14:47
Well, to tell the truth, i am not happy with what Erwin did here, and post some internals public. I have a great respect for him, but that wasn't really needed, and just makes it harder for myself and the rest.

Yes, the way we did run vb.org wasn't that good in the last month, it seems that such a big site needs more of an hierachial structure, and not such a democratic way of descissions we did in the past. But that's a mistake Erwin, myself and Brad made. We were the admins, and handled it this way. This way has lead to problems, that's bad. Actually a mod who disagreed with Erwin on a specific topic was now mentioned as the reason for Erwins step down. But that's not the only reason. For example i had the same opinion as the mentioned Moderator, and therefore, it was not just a mod who made it harder for Erwin, but also an Admin, namely me.

I want to excuse to those who got into the weels of our System. As i said, we namely Erwin, Brad and myself as Administrators during that time, are responsible, that it got that far. Everyone has to draw the consequences. I was close to resign myself, but i think the better way would be to bring vb.org back to what it was. That's why the structure of vb.org's staff will be changed deeply now.

We have three Admins, ever admin has his resort and is absolutelly responsible for his resort. If a member of the staff makes problems, then the Admin has and will take the needed actions. Also as admin of one resort, we won't interact into the other resorts, apert from 'giving a little help when there is a question'. Descission are made in the way they need to be made.

General descisions of vb.org will be made by all three Admins in a democratical way. Descissions in the specific resorts will be made by the group leader, and the staff will have to follow. Of course, we will always have an open ear for suggestions, but the final descission is made by the Admins.

Soa situation like that shouldn't appear anymore.
Glad to hear it, it seems as though real progress is being made, is there an ETA of when these changes will come in to effect? and a projected ETA in which these changes will start to impact the end users here?

Xenon
19 May 2006, 14:57
Well, i have sent out some pms to potential staff members already, and made some changes in the back to get the system running smoothly soon. I think the restructurization of the staff will be done completely within the next week, at least for the coding staff i have set next friday as an eta for myself.

When the staff is built, each section will have their own etas on things, sorted by importance :)

Reeve of shinra
19 May 2006, 18:40
Erwin:

Thank you for the time and energy you've put into the community here. With everything you have going on, I was constantly suprised that you found the time to be here.


Off Topic:

My site runs in a fashion where the mods have equal as the administrators. That was great when there 5 of us but difficult when we reached over 20. Such a system does have drawbacks from my own experiences, it has advantages as well. I just wanted to add that bit in since it really isnt a common way of doing things.

Ohiosweetheart
19 May 2006, 18:47
Well, to tell the truth, i am not happy with what Erwin did here, and post some internals public. I have a great respect for him, but that wasn't really needed, and just makes it harder for myself and the rest.



sorry but I don't think explaining why he was leaving is a bad thing at all. People were bound to ask, speculate, come to their own conclusions, etc... so in my eyes, it's better to put the truth out there, even if it's not pretty, so that rumors don't grow wings.

Xenon
19 May 2006, 18:54
well, i have no problem about posting the reason that he has problems with some staffmembers, but posting direct examples of internal discussed issues is something different. Also as it's not the whole story, as i said, i had the same opinion as this mentioned moderator on that topic, but i wasn't mentioned, and so everyone came to the conclusion that the mods have more powers than admins, whats not correct, as it was actually an admin and a moderator in different opinion to Erwin.

As i said the situation at all wasn't nice and i could understand the reason why Erwin left, but it's not exactly what he posted in public. But now we have to live with it. I still have to thank Erwin for a good time as CoAdmin, and i hope he'll stay here on vb.org.

Ohiosweetheart
19 May 2006, 19:04
no we didn't think that Mods have more power than staff. Perhaps just too much say as to what will and won't happen.
But I think all of that has been cleared up now, thank you, Stefan.

JD45
19 May 2006, 21:08
Wow, staff stepping down is becoming common place around here..:confused:

PixelFx
20 May 2006, 02:51
thanks for all your hard work here :D

yinyang
21 May 2006, 05:44
perhaps less admining for edwin means more time for him to create more wonderful modifications?

Shaliza
21 May 2006, 11:31
That's pretty crappy about the admin/mod issue. What the heck?

Anyway, good luck to you!

Paul M
21 May 2006, 12:34
Wow, staff stepping down is becoming common place around here..:confused:Really ? - did I miss some others then :confused:

joeychgo
21 May 2006, 16:52
Really ? - did I miss some others then :confused:

I was wondering that myself...

AWS
21 May 2006, 18:00
Erwin, sorry to see you leave. For a long time it was apparent that you actually had the best interest of the site in mind. Having your hands tied when you tried to implement changes to make the site better must have been very disheartening.
One can only hope that Erwins resignation will send a signal to remaining staff that they better weed out the ones causing the problems. Unfortunately, if past history is an indication, once the ruckus calms down things will return to how they were until the next time the same issues arise. Promoting a few coders to staff will pacify most and make it look like things are about to change for the better.
My bet is these same issues will return in the future.

Dean C
21 May 2006, 18:01
Erwin, sorry to see you leave. For a long time it was apparent that you actually had the best interest of the site in mind. Having your hands tied when you tried to implement changes to make the site better must have been very disheartening.
One can only hope that Erwins resignation will send a signal to remaining staff that they better weed out the ones causing the problems. Unfortunately, if past history is an indication, once the ruckus calms down things will return to how they were until the next time the same issues arise. Promoting a few coders to staff will pacify most and make it look like things are about to change for the better.
My bet is these same issues will return in the future.

Well said :)

joeychgo
21 May 2006, 18:10
Erwin, sorry to see you leave. For a long time it was apparent that you actually had the best interest of the site in mind. Having your hands tied when you tried to implement changes to make the site better must have been very disheartening.
One can only hope that Erwins resignation will send a signal to remaining staff that they better weed out the ones causing the problems. Unfortunately, if past history is an indication, once the ruckus calms down things will return to how they were until the next time the same issues arise. Promoting a few coders to staff will pacify most and make it look like things are about to change for the better.
My bet is these same issues will return in the future.


Very well said. I hope it will be different, but I cannot say my confidence level is very high.

Xenon
21 May 2006, 20:09
thanks to everyone beeing so optimistic :)

Well, actually the changes are way bigger than just making a few more users staff. We are making some real hierarchies, and sections into the team, which are all new on vb.org. And Erwin was one of us who decided the way of these changes with us, he stepped down after that descission.

Bison
23 May 2006, 20:37
Yup, ya gotta have fun doing this or isn't good for your health. I just hope those who are creating this indecisiveness think about what it really takes to have fun.

Good luck Erwin!

joeychgo
26 May 2006, 05:02
thanks to everyone beeing so optimistic :)




Xenon - I truly hope things work out for the better. If you need anything, dont hesitate to ask.

Shaliza
27 May 2006, 09:33
Wow, staff stepping down is becoming common place around here..:confused:

How many others stepped down?

Xenon
27 May 2006, 14:32
zero ^^

Boofo
27 May 2006, 14:33
YET, anyway. :cross-eyed:

Xenon
27 May 2006, 14:35
ok, i'll throw out a few, but that doesn't count ^^

Boofo
27 May 2006, 14:50
Remember, I'm taking you with me when I go. :cross-eyed:

Azhrialilu
27 May 2006, 17:50
Remember, I'm taking you with me when I go. :cross-eyed:

Can I come to? :p

Boofo
27 May 2006, 17:52
You have to ask? ;)

Azhrialilu
27 May 2006, 18:05
Well, it's only polite... you might think I'm stalking you if I just followed you without letting you know first :p

Boofo
27 May 2006, 20:23
I only wish someone would care enough to stalk me. :(

sambah
29 May 2006, 15:34
well, i have no problem about posting the reason that he has problems with some staffmembers, but posting direct examples of internal discussed issues is something different. Also as it's not the whole story, as i said, i had the same opinion as this mentioned moderator on that topic, but i wasn't mentioned, and so everyone came to the conclusion that the mods have more powers than admins, whats not correct, as it was actually an admin and a moderator in different opinion to Erwin.



I don't get it... you have 3 admins and several moderators.

You say 1 moderator and 1 admin disagree, meaning that 2 admins must be in agreement with erwin....

Maybe I'm just being slow here, but it sounds like you're in the wrong? :/

Bye erwin :(

bairy
29 May 2006, 17:32
Yeah but it depends if implementing something is based on a majority vote or unan unamini... everyone agreeing.

I would guess the latter.

Xenon
29 May 2006, 18:25
I don't get it... you have 3 admins and several moderators.

You say 1 moderator and 1 admin disagree, meaning that 2 admins must be in agreement with erwin....

Maybe I'm just being slow here, but it sounds like you're in the wrong? :/

Bye erwin :(

Maybe not everyone answered yet before the step down? ;)

As said, you don't know all the things behind, and the posting by Erwin was missleading some users, that's why i tried to clarify a bit more.

But now that's all in the past, and we're looking forward