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DirectPixel
19 May 2006, 04:47
It's been a while since I was last here. I log in today and all of a sudden I see Erwin stepping down, the admin team restructuring, and it seems as if everything's changing real quick these days.

I've been reading all the threads, and I'm thinking: why not take five minutes and restructure the way users' titles are ranked? I completely agree with Wayne's point: there should be no distinction between coders and non-coders. After all, we're all vBulletin customers (and prospective customers), right?

I browse the forums and see some people with simple "Member" titles, while others are "Advanced Coders" or "Master Coders". Why the distinction? Let's have a system set up similar to the way SitePoint has it done. Something that's not role-based, but rather, community-oriented. In this case, I don't think it's very appropriate to give users titles that show rank or superiority--especially when it comes to modification users asking the author for support. A ranking system would be completely conflicting in a asking-for-help/providing-help context.

Anyways, just my two cents. I'll get back to finding my free time so I can make a new style. ;)

The Chief
19 May 2006, 04:49
I think it's the least you can do for coders to at least give them a distinction in user titles ;)

DirectPixel
19 May 2006, 04:56
I am sure there are better ways of rewarding those who contribute to the community.

Perhaps a daily or weekly "What's Going On" anouncement similar to the ones they have at Aqua-Soft (http://www.aqua-soft.org) would work. It gives coders recognition for their contributions, but still maintains a sense of equality on forum-wide basis.

I just personally think that the usertitles don't work. Every single time I look at the usertitles here, I get put off by how judgemental they seem to be. I'm listed as a regular "Member". Does that mean I can't code? Of course not. Sure, I haven't really released any modifications, but that's not a requirement for knowing how to write good code, is it? Likewise, just because you've released a lot of hacks doesn't necessarily mean you know how to write safe and efficient code, right? There are better ways to distinguish hard-working members of the community without alienating the rest of the users.

Revan
19 May 2006, 07:14
I'm listed as a regular "Member". Does that mean I can't code? Of course not. Sure, I haven't really released any modifications, but that's not a requirement for knowing how to write good code, is it?No, but it means you are not a coder in this community.
Likewise, just because you've released a lot of hacks doesn't necessarily mean you know how to write safe and efficient code, right?But if all your hacks sucked balls and killed whatever server they were put on, you never would have gotten that amount of install clicks would you. Unless of course you released 1000 hacks, which so far I have not seen anyone do.
There are better ways to distinguish hard-working members of the community without alienating the rest of the users.IMO that's a load of crap. This forum is not a place where customers can come and find downloads that appeared right out of the blue. Someone coded them.

I wish people would stop with this "ohs teh noes, coders shouldn't be distinguished from the other customers because equality is the key" schite. Wtf, this isn't the Soviet Union.
I can say that I think coders are more valuable to this community because we provide the reason as to why customers come here in the first place. Everybody who thinks that if a coder and a non-coder (in the sense of contributor to this site) both leave, that that's an equal shame, is pretty ignorant. A contributor is valuable to this community. Someone who clicks install on a couple of hacks isn't.

Im not saying that coders are more worth as people. Im just saying that we are more worth in this community site.

Oblivion Knight
19 May 2006, 08:16
I've suggested a "Contributor" status for ALL users that contibute toward releases, support, graphics, styles.. pretty much anything.

The "Coder/Designer", "Advanced Coder/Designer" and "Master Coder/Designer" ranks could be kept for additional bonuses, but make them hidden and kept within the system..

Freesteyelz
19 May 2006, 08:17
I like "Contributer". :)

Paul M
19 May 2006, 08:52
Why hide them ?

Are you are suggesting that someone who has been here 2/3 weeks and has released one template or hack has the same title as someone who has been here for 2/3 years and has 40/50/60 whatever templates, styles or hacks ?

Sorry, but you won't get my vote for such an idea - and I'd be suprised if many others supported it either. I don't really see much wrong with the current system. :cool:

The Geek
19 May 2006, 09:27
'new' usertitles? They have been here about as long as I have been (I think). Or do you just have Title envy DP? You don't like your member?

Oblivion Knight
19 May 2006, 09:34
Are you are suggesting that someone who has been here 2/3 weeks and has released one template or hack has the same title as someone who has been here for 2/3 years and has 40/50/60 whatever templates, styles or hacks ?Yes, I am.

I'm not a huge fan of the whole "elitism" thing that we are effectively promoting.

Darat
19 May 2006, 09:46
I'd just add that I'm totally and utterly uninterested in what my "title" is, on my own forum we use the Staff title hack to add a functional role title because it's useful for the members of the forum. (My title on my forum is "Lackey" because that is what I am! A lackey for the owners of the forum and for the members.)

However I appreciate that some people like titles because they are proud of what they have contributed and like to display that. But if you want titles for that reason why not use the Awards hack? That way they can be more meaningful, so someone who has had one of their hacks win "Mod of the Month" gets a badge for that, if they have released say 10 mods and had a hundred installs they get a gold coding award and so on?

In fact it could be a way to foster more community feel - what about if there was a vote for "best supported mod?" every so often, that way people would get a reward for not only releasing hacks but for the effort they've put in to really help people use their hacks?

The Geek
19 May 2006, 09:49
I don't think its elitism - I think it can motivate some contributers and thats a bonus for those that come here looking for modifications. You may as well ditch HoTM, CoTM, WoTHM as it only creates elitism. Ditch the coders forum (thats very elitist!), get rid of any payment of recognition.

I don't think its really that big of a deal, but I guess its nice to stand out a little more than someone who released a 1 line modification 10 years ago that no one ever installed.

I'm not meaning to give you grief Andy, just hopefully demonstrating that it isn't elitist - its motivational.

Hellcat
19 May 2006, 10:01
However I appreciate that some people like titles because they are proud of what they have contributed and like to display that. But if you want titles for that reason why not use the Awards hack? That way they can be more meaningful, so someone who has had one of their hacks win "Mod of the Month" gets a badge for that, if they have released say 10 mods and had a hundred installs they get a gold coding award and so on?
/me hugs his title

But the above get's my vote, that sounds actually quite good - even to someone wo digs the current titles (like me ;), do I have to be ashamed now?)

Oblivion Knight
19 May 2006, 10:01
I don't think its elitism - I think it can motivate some contributers and thats a bonus for those that come here looking for modifications. You may as well ditch HoTM, CoTM, WoTHM as it only creates elitism. Ditch the coders forum (thats very elitist!), get rid of any payment of recognition.

I don't think its really that big of a deal, but I guess its nice to stand out a little more than someone who released a 1 line modification 10 years ago that no one ever installed.

I'm not meaning to give you grief Andy, just hopefully demonstrating that it isn't elitist - its motivational.Of course, there are always arguements for and against any suggestion.. :)

The reason I picked on the user titles is because at the moment, it's doing more harm than good. While it's motivational, we are also seeing an increase of modifications released whereby it is unneccessary to add or modify any code, and it could be done with a simple template edit. By my own admition, one of my old releases is a good example of this, but at the time I didn't realise it could be done with a template edit.. :p

As I said, there's no reason to remove the fundamentals of those ranks with additional bonuses - but I'd just like to hide them.. I see no problems with HotM, CotM, WotHM(?) or the coders forum.

It's unlikely that this will be implemented anyway, I just thought I'd contribute a relevant suggestion that I'd made to the thread.. ;)

Darat
19 May 2006, 10:05
* Hellcat hugs his title


But the above get's my vote, that sounds actually quite good - even to someone wo digs the current titles (like me ;), do I have to be ashamed now?)

Oops - sorry if it felt like a dig, wasn't meant to be, as I said I appreciate that some people like titles and I can understand why. Perhaps if I was a coding contributor I would feel different! :)

The Geek
19 May 2006, 10:10
WoTHM = Whatever of The Month ;)


Darat actually made a couple of good suggestions there.

peterska2
19 May 2006, 10:19
Hey,

I'm one of those folks who got the shock of their lives the day the new designer titles came in. Up to that point I was a lowly coder, and I will admit it, jealous of those with advanced coder titles as I had far more installs and mods than some of them.

However, I do think that perhaps the titles need re-working. Perhaps something as simple as changing member to community member, all releated titles accordingly. After all, it is the little things that often count, and without the members, there would be no demand for coders.

Xenon
19 May 2006, 13:32
we are currently thinkgin of a different system, but that's surely not the most important thing this weekend ;)

Darat
19 May 2006, 13:35
we are currently thinkgin of a different system, but that's surely not the most important thing this weekend ;)


Pah typical!



:D

sabret00the
19 May 2006, 13:37
Without going into the in's and out's of this thread, to remove an earned status is ludicrous, the user title system is there for a reason and people worked for that, people talk about not alienating non-coders, how about not alienating coders? the idea that contributing to the sites existance shouldn't count for shit on the surface to appease people who can't be arsed or lack the specialised know-how is crap, it shouldn't even by up for discussion.

Rich
19 May 2006, 14:04
This site is only here because you have "coders" that are releasing work. If all of the coders left, this site would be useless!

The coders on this site make this site work in every aspect because they are needed. Giving them a little recognition in a simple usertitle is by far the LEAST this site could do. The fact that you would even consider removing such a mild thing would be a slap in the face to those that contribute regularly to the site.

Why in the world would a brand new member be placed on the same plain as an advanced or master coder? That sounds utterly ridiculous to even state.

I released one mod and have the title "coder" beside my name. That title means I donated in some way to the site. Now look at a Master Coder. Do you think I should be placed on the same plateau as them? Hell no! They OBVIOUISLY have done much more for this site than I have and in no way should we be deemed as "equals". We are NOT equals. They are MUCH better than I and have done a lot more for this site.

Those of you weeping about the usertitles need to relax and focus on more important things. With all of the issues this site has, that is by far a nothing and this thread is nothing more than a waste of disk space on your server.

Move on and let it go.

Oblivion Knight
19 May 2006, 15:06
Some people need to calm down a little.. It was a simple suggestion and was unlikely to ever be implemented, there's no need for some of the dramatical and somewhat aggressive replies that have been posted.

bashy
19 May 2006, 15:20
Hi peeps

Just my 2 pennies, I like the way the titles are atm, it gives me an idea as to how competant a coder is, or how much experience he/she may have (with regards to here anyway)

Thats all i have to say really lol...

ronoxQ
19 May 2006, 15:27
I'd just add that I'm totally and utterly uninterested in what my "title" is, on my own forum we use the Staff title hack to add a functional role title because it's useful for the members of the forum. (My title on my forum is "Lackey" because that is what I am! A lackey for the owners of the forum and for the members.)

However I appreciate that some people like titles because they are proud of what they have contributed and like to display that. But if you want titles for that reason why not use the Awards hack? That way they can be more meaningful, so someone who has had one of their hacks win "Mod of the Month" gets a badge for that, if they have released say 10 mods and had a hundred installs they get a gold coding award and so on?

In fact it could be a way to foster more community feel - what about if there was a vote for "best supported mod?" every so often, that way people would get a reward for not only releasing hacks but for the effort they've put in to really help people use their hacks?

I like this idea a lot.

DirectPixel
19 May 2006, 15:38
No, but it means you are not a coder in this community.
But if all your hacks sucked balls and killed whatever server they were put on, you never would have gotten that amount of install clicks would you. Unless of course you released 1000 hacks, which so far I have not seen anyone do.
IMO that's a load of crap. This forum is not a place where customers can come and find downloads that appeared right out of the blue. Someone coded them.

I wish people would stop with this "ohs teh noes, coders shouldn't be distinguished from the other customers because equality is the key" schite. Wtf, this isn't the Soviet Union.
I can say that I think coders are more valuable to this community because we provide the reason as to why customers come here in the first place. Everybody who thinks that if a coder and a non-coder (in the sense of contributor to this site) both leave, that that's an equal shame, is pretty ignorant. A contributor is valuable to this community. Someone who clicks install on a couple of hacks isn't.

Im not saying that coders are more worth as people. Im just saying that we are more worth in this community site.
I didn't say they should be treated as crap. I didn't say they shouldn't be recognized. I found some time to put together a perfectly legitimate and professional suggestions thread and I get flamed? Coming from an "Advanced Coder", nonetheless. What does this say about the community?

There should be another way of recognizing contributors that doesn't divide the entire community into normal members and coders. The awards hack idea sounds like a great idea.

smacklan
19 May 2006, 18:33
I'm sure I will get blasted for what I'm about to say, but I'm going to say it anyway. One of the biggest problems with this site today is this hugh elitist, high horse attitude eminating from the "coder" community. There are hugh sites using vbulletin that have not been hacked to pieces with mods from here so the notion that vbulletin would "die" if this site went away because of a coder exodus is a mighty bold assumption imho. Visit some of these sites like WHT, Sitepoint, etc. and read the comments in the threads about vb vs some other forum software and the pro's offerered for vb generally never mention the "hugh mod's available rather the strength of the core product itself. I, for one, could give 2 ****'s about the user ranking system here, but I'm also beginning to feel the same way about the coding community. I've learned what I know about vb not by loading up on hacks from here, but experimenting with my own sites, breaking and fixing things and making them the way I want them...all without the help of the "almighty coder" (except for the awesome stuff I've picked up at The Geek's site...which were definately worth paying for) thank you very much. I come here mainly to see what ideas are being kicked around and how the industry is changing, some friendships and so on...not to be embroiled in juvenile spats and testosterone contests.

okay...rant over...let the flaming begin :banana:

zappsan
19 May 2006, 22:47
Hi peeps

Just my 2 pennies, I like the way the titles are atm, it gives me an idea as to how competant a coder is, or how much experience he/she may have (with regards to here anyway)

Thats all i have to say really lol...
I agree with you.
I've never seen the user titles as something to make the coders look "superior" to the others.
It's always given me the information on a coder's experience with vBulletin which might be useful in some cases^^

I don't think they should be removed/changed, I like them the way they are.

Mr Chad
21 May 2006, 06:57
Mabe add more coder levels. And if the person is a coder and designer some how make a custom title for those usertitles :)

Roms
21 May 2006, 07:21
I agree with Revan, if you want a title (you must or you wouldn't have complained...) then contribute to the site and YOU can be a CODER/DESIGNER HERE. You may be else where but you are not here, face it..... Like it or not it's the truth.

For example, I myself am the s#it on more than on board... but here, I'm a Master Designer... Why, that's what I've contributed so that's my title.... I can code but I haven't here. Are their members benefiting from my codes? NO

peterska2
21 May 2006, 07:28
Mabe add more coder levels. And if the person is a coder and designer some how make a custom title for those usertitles :)

If someone is both a coder (any level) and a designer (any level) then maybe set it so that they get both titles. It makes sense when you see the PM's I get about coding issues although I'm not much of a coder, but they just see the Master bit of my designer title and think I must be able to code php as well.

Roms
21 May 2006, 07:34
If someone is both a coder (any level) and a designer (any level) then maybe set it so that they get both titles. It makes sense when you see the PM's I get about coding issues although I'm not much of a coder, but they just see the Master bit of my designer title and think I must be able to code php as well.

While Agree with you, this post was based off the fact that DP doesn't think that it's fair he doesn't have a title even though he can code/design.. (granted he did create the style here, cheers to that).

So lets see it, contribute and earn it. Fair enough.

peterska2
21 May 2006, 07:39
Agreed totally. In order to have a title here, you need to be contributing to the community. Yes there are people who are talented coders in their own rights but have member titles because they don't release any codes here. IMO, if you are prepared to learn or already know a bit about coding for vB, then there is nothing stopping you releasing something back to the community, even if you need to ask some of the more experienced vB coders for help with some parts of it. That's the whole point of a community, IMO, sharing.

COBRAws
21 May 2006, 07:47
I prefeer keeping the status as they are today. If a coder comes and releases his work to the comunity, he should be "rewarded" with at least, a special rank like "Coder".

I've been here sinse 2002 and never released anything, I can barely code, and made awesome things to the boards I admin, but here @ vb.org I havent released anything and I am Happy being a "Member".


My 2 cents.

Roms
21 May 2006, 07:47
Agreed totally. In order to have a title here, you need to be contributing to the community. Yes there are people who are talented coders in their own rights but have member titles because they don't release any codes here. IMO, if you are prepared to learn or already know a bit about coding for vB, then there is nothing stopping you releasing something back to the community, even if you need to ask some of the more experienced vB coders for help with some parts of it. That's the whole point of a community, IMO, sharing.

Well said, I have about 10 styles I would really like to share but haven't had the time to release them to the public.... Should I get a title for my intent... I don't think so. ;)

Zachery
21 May 2006, 11:46
Agreed totally. In order to have a title here, you need to be contributing to the community. Yes there are people who are talented coders in their own rights but have member titles because they don't release any codes here. IMO, if you are prepared to learn or already know a bit about coding for vB, then there is nothing stopping you releasing something back to the community, even if you need to ask some of the more experienced vB coders for help with some parts of it. That's the whole point of a community, IMO, sharing.
So what about the people who provide endless ammounts of support and help, why can't they have a title too? You don't need to know how to code in order to troulbe shoot a issue.

Sean James
21 May 2006, 11:53
i like the title how they r, cant see a problem in them.

Revan
21 May 2006, 12:20
So what about the people who provide endless ammounts of support and help, why can't they have a title too?Do you want to crawl through every support thread and find out who supported who the most?
They can't have a title too because it's not measurable in the same way as a modification/design released.

Rich
21 May 2006, 12:27
So what about the people who provide endless ammounts of support and help, why can't they have a title too? You don't need to know how to code in order to troulbe shoot a issue.

I would be interested in seeing how you would be able to determine who got promoted to a usergroup based on question answering. (Which I thought was the reason for the default ladder system.)

I say this because you would first need to implement a new system on the site to allow users the ability to choose if their post is a question or an answer. I mean you couldn't just give it to users you feel deserve it because wouldn't that be biased? The only way around being prejudice in a system like that would to have it automated. To make it automated, the system would need to be able to read how many questions you have answered....successfuly. (Time to implement the reputation system..only modified maybe?)

The coder and designer titles dictate what users have done in regards to physical releases.

If you want to also implement a system for users that don't donate any work for installation, but do spend their time answering questions, go for it. I for one am not against it. I am just interested in how it would be determined who gets the promotional title.

peterska2
21 May 2006, 12:29
So what about the people who provide endless ammounts of support and help, why can't they have a title too? You don't need to know how to code in order to troulbe shoot a issue.

How do you measure who provides lots of support? There will be a few names who crop up, but unless the person provided mountains of support every single day and so it picks up on.

I previously suggested changing titles such as senior member to senior contributing member & member to contributing member. I would be tempted to ensure that there is an entry level one just as member for something like < 150 posts. IMO when you get to 150 posts you are becoming established in the community here and as such are contributing to the site even if it is just by pointing other people in the right direction.

The other option would be using something like the thanks hack where users can be rted as helpful or not by the number of thanks that they have recieved. This could then possibly trigger promotions in the same way that installs does for coders/designers.

Zachery
21 May 2006, 12:30
My point is, what do the users who give up their free time to get support get, even if they are not a coder or designer. Are their contributions to this site any less important than anyone eleses?

Paul M
21 May 2006, 12:41
It would not be hard to do really if the will was there - just install something like the thank you system, or even just turn on the reputation system (disable the negative part, and disable it in non relevant forums) - and then have some titles based on how much people get thanked or repped for help.

Zachery
21 May 2006, 12:43
It would not be hard to do really if the will was there - just install something like the thank you system, or even just turn on the reputation system (disable the negative part, and disable it in non relevant forums) - and then have some titles based on how much people get thanked or repped for help.
We don't really need yet another popularity contest here.

TeaTree
21 May 2006, 12:46
The usertitle system is a good way of thanking users, and it has also been earnt-So in my opinion, is fine as it is

Rich
21 May 2006, 12:47
The only thing that sucks about the rep system is that there are people that get an answer and don't say thanks at all. They up and disappear until their next question arises.

I am with Kerry and think that the default ladder could be modified. Clearly a user that sticks around long enough to write 150+ posts has established some sort of "relationship" with the site.

Of course you jump up to a higher figure for those that have been here longer to get promotoed to the next level.

Basically, relying on users to click a button is ...well...unreliable.

Paul M
21 May 2006, 12:51
We don't really need yet another popularity contest here.Well excuse me for backing you up. I'll shut up now. :(

Zachery
21 May 2006, 12:54
Well excuse me for backing you up. I'll shut up now. :(
I just think we need to do away with all of the speration that exsists here at this time, yes you guys are coders (to me there is no difference between someone who codes advanced languages like c# php asp.net and xhtml and css), you guys all work hard. Your thanks should be from the users who thank you and the satasification that you made someones life easier. Titles are nice, but they are doing more harm than good now. The community needs to be unified, not seperated more.

Rich
21 May 2006, 13:08
I just think we need to do away with all of the speration that exsists here at this time, yes you guys are coders (to me there is no difference between someone who codes advanced languages like c# php asp.net and xhtml and css), you guys all work hard. Your thanks should be from the users who thank you and the satasification that you made someones life easier. Titles are nice, but they are doing more harm than good now. The community needs to be unified, not seperated more.

The only people complaining about this are those that haven't contributed to this site! Who cares if you can code or style. If you haven't coded a release or style for this site, don't expect a title. Period! Its not a difficult concept.

I will use myself as a good example. I am a better designer than I am a coder. In fact, when I have some time, I can guarantee that I will get the "Master Designer" title. Now I know I can style with the best of them, but no one here knows that. So wheres my Master Designer title? Its not under my name because I didn't do anything on this site to deserve it! I can sell styles and modify the hell out of other peoples sites, but until I donate some work to this site, I don't get the title! I know this, I understand this, and I AGREE with this!

When someone donates on a users site to help with costs, they normally get a user markup and title added to them. If a user came to me and said he doesn't think it is fair that they have a different color and usertitle would YOU change your policy on that? They could tell you all day that they have money in their wallet, but they never donated. So would you place them on the same plain as a user that has? Would you drop the title from those users? If you did, you would lose potential donations.

This is VERY similar to that. We have people that can code that don't donate wanting things to be "equal". I say "The hell with that!" There is nothing equal about a user that USES mods and a user that RELEASES them. They ARE on different plains.

Zachery
21 May 2006, 13:13
The only people complaining about this are those that haven't contributed to this site! Who cares if you can code or style. If you haven't coded a release or style for this site, don't expect a title. Period! Its not a difficult concept.

I will use myself as a good example. I am a better designer than I am a coder. In fact, when I have some time, I can guarantee that I will get the "Master Designer" title. Now I know I can style with the best of them, but no one here knows that. So wheres my Master Designer title? Its not under my name because I didn't do anything on this site to deserve it! I can sell styles and modify the hell out of other peoples sites, but until I donate some work to this site, I don't get the title! I know this, I understand this, and I AGREE with this!

When someone donates on a users site to help with costs, they normally get a user markup and title added to them. If a user came to me and said he doesn't think it is fair that they have a different color and usertitle would YOU change your policy on that? They could tell you all day that they have money in their wallet, but they never donated. So would you place them on the same plain as a user that has? Would you drop the title from those users? If you did, you would lose potential donations.

This is VERY similar to that. We have people that can code that don't donate wanting things to be "equal". I say "The hell with that!" There is nothing equal about a user that USES mods and a user that RELEASES them. They ARE on different plains.
I've got a title, and I'm complaining about it, for the first few years of my vB.org life, I was a support monkey for a few select hacks. Most of my work was done at vBT and we had no master designers or similiar system. We all lived worked and got along fine :)

Paul M
21 May 2006, 13:22
30 years ago we all got along fine with out PC's at all - that doesn't mean we should all go back to that way because it was fine - things change. :)

Rich
21 May 2006, 13:25
Put it in a poll Zachery. I would be interested to see what the outcome of a poll would reveal. Setup a poll asking if the members of this site want to remove the usertitle system as it is now and lets allow responses.

Personally, if my title were removed it wouldn't make a difference to me but I do not agree with those that CAN code saying they should have a title when they HAVEN'T coded anything for this site.

I am being serious. If this is a change that you and the staff are considering, get a poll setup and make it a requirement for every user that votes to voice WHY they voted the way they did. if they don't post why, remove their vote. Lets see how it turns out.

Zachery
21 May 2006, 13:26
30 years ago we all got along fine with out PC's at all - that doesn't mean we should all go back to that way because it was fine - things change. :)
My point is now, our community is divided, We've got non coders, coders, and staff. Everyone seems to be on edge with each other, some take elitist attitudes toward others. In order to negate this, we should be a group of people working together toward common goals. The separation of special user titles is not helping.

Rich
21 May 2006, 13:34
We've got non coders, coders, and staff.

We have members that download mods, members that create them, and staff that maintain the site. That is actually how that should be broken down.

Everyone seems to be on edge with each other, some take elitist attitudes toward others.

Then you, as a staff member, need to approach and deal with the "some".

In order to negate this, we should be a group of people working together toward common goals.

MOST of us are working together. Like you said, there are "some" that are displaying some elite attitude toward non coders.

The separation of special user titles is not helping.

The usertitles are not why they are being elitist. They are acting that way because they can. lol Removing the title doesn't change the attitude.

Shelley_c
21 May 2006, 13:39
I'm a mere member, does this mean I can't design or need a title saying I can?

I can resolve this. Implement a "hugging area" and when someone feels like the chips are down, and feeling a little low and need a little motivation a staff member can come in and give them a big hearty hug. Heck, I'll even promote "motivation for coders" and give hugs in plenty.

I'm in, are you?

Hugging area staff?

Revan
21 May 2006, 13:44
I might support that idea shelley, depends on if your hot tho ;)
XD nah jk.

Marco van Herwaarden
21 May 2006, 13:48
I for sure think we could do with a Hugging Area.

Rich
21 May 2006, 13:52
I'm a mere member, does this mean I can't design or need a title saying I can?

Doesn't mean you can't! Thats my point. It just means you haven't created a "style" or coded a modification for this site. You may be able to do both, but since you have uploaded a mod or style for download, the title isn't there.

On another note though, why don't the users that upload graphics get a title? They take time to make! (Especially the good ones.) They too should have a title of some sort seeing as they are donating their work to the site.

Unless I am mistaken, Shelley has uploaded button sets and other graphics for members to use.

*Rich gives Shelley a hug

Zachery
21 May 2006, 13:54
Doesn't mean you can't! Thats my point. It just means you haven't created a "style" or coded a modification for this site. You may be able to do both, but since you have uploaded a mod or style for download, the title isn't there.

On another note though, why don't the users that upload graphics get a title? They take time to make! (Especially the good ones.) They too should have a title of some sort seeing as they are donating their work to the site.

Unless I am mistaken, Shelley has uploaded button sets and other graphics for members to use.

*Rich gives Shelley a hug
I thought graphics people were under the same as designers.

Rich
21 May 2006, 13:56
I thought graphics people were under the same as designers.

Me too but Shelley has no title and she has uploaded several button sets. I just did a quick run of her name and it shows she just released a "Black Scheme" set. Where is her title?

Shelley_c
21 May 2006, 14:03
Doesn't mean you can't! Thats my point. It just means you haven't created a "style" or coded a modification for this site. You may be able to do both, but since you have uploaded a mod or style for download, the title isn't there.

On another note though, why don't the users that upload graphics get a title? They take time to make! (Especially the good ones.) They too should have a title of some sort seeing as they are donating their work to the site.

Unless I am mistaken, Shelley has uploaded button sets and other graphics for members to use.

*Rich gives Shelley a hug

I don't actually want or need a title, "member" does me fine. I've been providing free graphics for 3 years to various communities, so a title would not motivate me, or make me any happier nor would I contribute anymore or any less for that matter or feel that i'm not getting enough if any respect. Like I said, a usertitle is pointless (imo) doesn't mean anything to me whatsoever. If someone likes my contributions, fine. If they don't, that's fine also.

We need to promote the hugging area campaign, who's with me?

Marco van Herwaarden
21 May 2006, 14:16
We could maybe start by adding a Hug-smilie

peterska2
21 May 2006, 14:22
I'll start the hugs then :)

Shelley_c
21 May 2006, 14:24
We could maybe start by adding a Hug-smilie

I'll hold you to that one. I just happen to...... errrr (pictures speak louder than words).

https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/external/2006/05/11.gif or https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/Maybe? probably not.

Lottis
21 May 2006, 14:25
All we need is love.:banana:

Lottis
21 May 2006, 14:30
I'll hold you to that one. I just happen to...... errrr (pictures speak louder than words).

https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/external/2006/05/11.gif or https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/Maybe? probably not.
You are quick. Ore did you plan this out? :lol:

Shelley_c
21 May 2006, 14:33
You are quick. Ore did you plan this out? :lol:

Nope. I'm quicker, I made a mistake with the animation and had to re-edit it (check the edit line in the topic). I don't plan anything me, I take each day as it comes.

Sig looks nice lottis. You're now "respected" in a funny kind of way.

All we need is love.:banana:

That's what I'm talking about. with a little love, and a little hugging. The skys the limit minus the usertitle to gain motivation and respect.

peterska2
21 May 2006, 14:35
Those are cool animations Shelley.

I noticed that the guys all vanished all of a sudden, lol.

Marco van Herwaarden
21 May 2006, 14:39
I'll hold you to that one. I just happen to...... errrr (pictures speak louder than words).


https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/external/2006/05/11.gif or https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/
Maybe? probably not.Ahum Shelby.........please keep in mind that also minor's browse this site.;)

Marco van Herwaarden
21 May 2006, 14:40
Those are cool animations Shelley.

I noticed that the guys all vanished all of a sudden, lol.???

I am a guy, but still think there is not enough hugging in the world. Why should guys vanish?

Shelley_c
21 May 2006, 14:45
Ahum Shelby.........please keep in mind that also minor's browse this site.;)

No problem,

You might want to delete the thread in the emoticon area with these emoticon variants if minor's are visiting and staff deem this inappropriate for under age viewing.

Lottis
21 May 2006, 15:18
Sig looks nice lottis. You're now "respected" in a funny kind of way.
I fel a littel strange, with that one. I guess i go fore the other one.
:lottis, forgets that she is a littel old lady, sometime. And get carried away:

Why should guys vanish?
I think some guyes hears a stranges alert.:D

Shelley_c
21 May 2006, 15:25
Less of the little, I'm 5 ft 8" minus the hunch. Get back to me in 30 years time when I've had time to grow the hunch and develope the deadly form of dementia. By then, I would have lost a few inches, I guess you will have also.

Are we going Off-Topic? is that not normally frowned upon in the forum world?

Revan
21 May 2006, 16:00
Hence why we stopped talking, to let you get it out of your system then bug the mods about cleaning it up.

akanevsky
21 May 2006, 16:10
The coders on this site make this site work in every aspect because they are needed. Giving them a little recognition in a simple usertitle is by far the LEAST this site could do. The fact that you would even consider removing such a mild thing would be a slap in the face to those that contribute regularly to the site.

The only people complaining about this are those that haven't contributed to this site! Who cares if you can code or style. If you haven't coded a release or style for this site, don't expect a title. Period! Its not a difficult concept.

Well said. Since your status is a first-level status ("Coder"), I especially respect you two for saying that.

1
Here is my opinion on this:

In any community, one must work one's way up to earn a higher title. Of course, that excludes a communist community which lacks any titles whatsoever and therefore does not provide for moving up the social ladder, but due to the nature of an average man, communism can never work. In a non-communist community, it would make no sense to drop a person back the level of origin, because those who are at the level of origin have done far less than those who have been promoted. Title, therefore, serves a purpose of communicating vitally important information about a person. As an example, in an army, you cannot expect a soldier to have the same combat or leadership skills as an army general. One, therefore, has greater chances of winning a war when led by a 5-star general than when led by a baselevel soldier. If one is to drop all generals back to the status of a soldier, an army would be deprived of its leaders and would thus be unable to continue functioning properly. Likewise, there is a higher probability that a coder ranked "Master" will have higher level of knowledge than coder ranked "Advanced". The frequency of bug occurence is also more frequent among "Coders" than "Advanced Coders", and among "Master Coders" than "Advanced Coders". The probability of receing valid information on a given topic from an "Advanced Coder" is, once again, higher than the probability of receing valid information on the same topic from a "Coder". If ranks are to be eliminated, the direct result will be a dramatic drop in contribution from coders of all levels, and - given what's currently going on in the vb.org community - many advanced and master coders will withdraw their hacks and leave. Since, as certain ungrateful people have the impudence to state, "coders are replaceable," I am sure that withdrawal of hacks is not going to pose a problem for non-coders.

My point is now, our community is divided, We've got non coders, coders, and staff. Everyone seems to be on edge with each other, some take elitist attitudes toward others. In order to negate this, we should be a group of people working together toward common goals. The separation of special user titles is not helping.

Usertitles are not the cause of the problem. The disrespectful attitude of certain people and the fact that the staff here at vb.org fails to create and impose certain rules is the cause. The "certain people" I am referring to take the presence of hacks for granted. They forget the fact that hacks require a lot of time and effort and the fact that, nevertheless, these hacks are being released for free. These people, therefore, do not bother to apply censure - both linguistic and moral - to what they post.
I cannot be speaking for everybody here, but I can say for sure that if both coders and non-coders would show a least bit of respect towards other coders in their posts, I would, provide support in a much friendlier fashion than you can currently observe me do. On the contrary, if usertitles and coder recognition are to be completely eliminated... refer to the last sentence of the previous paragraph.

Freesteyelz
21 May 2006, 22:25
Usertitles are not the cause of the problem. The disrespectful attitude of certain people and the fact that the staff here at vb.org fails to create and impose certain rules is the cause.

I've seen attitude coming from both member and coder/designer groups. This creates an unhealthy/un-welcoming environment. While I agree that it's the staff that sets the tone in the community and how it functions, all members of this community have the responsibility to keep themselves in check. Supposedly the majority of us are all forum admins of some sort, maybe we should start acting like it for a change. I am using "we" since we're all in this together, right?

Boofo
22 May 2006, 06:24
I am using "we" since we're all in this together, right?

Not me. You're not dragging me down in this one. Unh-Unh!

Freesteyelz
22 May 2006, 07:14
I'm sorry but who else is going to keep me afloat? Stop being selfish and think for the greater good. :D

Boofo
22 May 2006, 07:34
Sure, that's easy for you to say. You don't have my lousy reputation to contend with.

Freesteyelz
22 May 2006, 07:43
Bleh. You haven't been on Chat lately. I'm catching up. LOL.

Boofo
22 May 2006, 09:56
If you mean IRC, that isn't chat, that's recess. ;)

akanevsky
22 May 2006, 13:01
Would you please keep on topic?

Boofo
22 May 2006, 13:06
If you don't like it, sir, there bare plenty of other threads for you to spout off in.

akanevsky
22 May 2006, 13:13
If you don't like it, sir, there bare plenty of other threads for you to spout off in.

This is the only thread about usertitles as far as I know... Besides, it's not nice to hijack threads anyway.
I'd post this in LiveWire's thread, but that one got closed. So I can't.

Rich
22 May 2006, 13:20
Boofo, he is actually right. lol (Ducks from cane.)

Last time I checked, it was the staffs job to tell the users to stay on topic. It wasn't the users job to ask the staff and it certainly isn't the job of a staff member to tell the users to STOP posting in the CORRECT thread because they want to chat instead of keeping to the topic.

*Rich dodges the cane again!

Boofo
22 May 2006, 13:26
You guys need to lighten up. ;)

Psionic Vision, it wasn't what you said, but the attitude you convey whenever you say things like that. It puts everyone you deal with on the defense. As a Staff member, I apologize for my post. As a fellow member, you really need to work on your attitude here on the site.

And Rich, I'll deal with you later. ;) But you are right and I apologize.