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Brainwrek
01 Jun 2006, 09:01
I was flipping from page 67 to 68 and *poof* it was gone. Am I blind?

Danny.VBT
01 Jun 2006, 09:06
The thread has been deleted as some things are being discussed. :)

Brainwrek
01 Jun 2006, 09:27
:angry:

Shaliza
01 Jun 2006, 10:24
At first, I thought it was the search feature messing up, but I went to the forum & it seems to have vanished faster than The Roadrunner.

vBintense
01 Jun 2006, 10:25
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=117292

Is about all that has been said, it broke the TOS , then that came up...

Brent H
01 Jun 2006, 10:27
The same thing happened with the VBSEO thread, if I recall correctly. Some people didn't like the commercial aspect of the product and/or the way they did things in regards to said product, so here we are.

Zachery
01 Jun 2006, 10:42
:threads mereged:

Brent H
01 Jun 2006, 10:51
The thread has been deleted as some things are being discussed. :)
Do you mean actually deleted or just moved out of public view? There was a post in there by d1414 that I needed to show some of my staff.

Shaliza
01 Jun 2006, 11:06
Wow, crazy merge. At first, I thought someone somehow changed my post up & put in Brent's name.

I need coffee.

Nordinho
01 Jun 2006, 11:19
Hmm..apparently I missed something...couldn't the offending posts just have been deleted?? The thread 'was' pretty usefull...

vBintense
01 Jun 2006, 11:23
The one in charge of the hack was who broke TOS. That is why the thread was removed.

ronoxQ
01 Jun 2006, 11:26
How was TOS broken?

And was this hack removed by the creator or by one of the mods?

Brent H
01 Jun 2006, 12:03
I'm not quite sure, but I'm guessing it has something to do with the product becoming something more commercial than most were expecting.

Brad
01 Jun 2006, 12:22
The ultimate fate of that thread will be decided soon, at this point I've moved it to a private forum for staff review.

influence
01 Jun 2006, 12:53
it was a useless thread anyway, they were only teasing people with it and still on beta 1 and not to mention only god knows when in 07 they will be releasing it.

Trana
01 Jun 2006, 14:35
This just gets weirder and weirder.

AZhitman
01 Jun 2006, 15:28
^ Indeed...

As a Big-Boards owner who is considering a switch to running my forums on vBulletin, I've got to admit this "moving of threads" is not having a positive influence on my decision-making.

Hopefully it returns soon, there was some good dialogue going on.

friendly
01 Jun 2006, 15:30
With the way things are going, I suggest those involved provide a better sense of when it will be released, so those of us who want to give it a shot can decide if we should wait or move on.
I'd much rather be told that vbspace would be released in a year, instead of holding on the the idea that it would be rolled out "some day."

rabidkevin
01 Jun 2006, 15:59
I too am highly disappointed in being mislead. My community serves such a distinct group of people in las vegas only that remote profile hosting would not benefit me at all. i just wanted to beef up the profiles, member search, add a little group feature, comment system, friends list etc is that so hard to ask? I'd pay good money for a simplistic beef up of VB with features in high demand. I would have hired a private mod developer 6 months ago if I would have known this.

I do not mind the directory idea, drop the remote profile system and I'd use it.

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 16:09
Rather than arguing let me ask this:

What can we do to make this situation right? What can we do to make as many of you happy as possible?

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 16:16
RonoxQ is NOT an employee or representative of our company. He's a nice guy I showed the system to who likes it. I wanted to clarify that.

The point of this system is to bring people together. It is breaking my heart that it's doing quite the opposite right now. I can understand how some of you feel misled. If I had to do it all over again, we would have stopped updating the vbspace thread. Disappointing you guys was the last thing we wanted to do.

At this point, what is done is done. What can we do to help rectify this situation?

friendly
01 Jun 2006, 16:21
I've worked with private label solutions that allow remotely hosted content to be included on domains or sub domains.
Would this be possible with vbspace? -- some kind of web services/API solution.

Chris M
01 Jun 2006, 16:22
I have removed the argumentative and personally attacking posts from within this thread...

Please do not continue this any further :)

Chris

Krahl
01 Jun 2006, 16:23
RonoxQ is NOT an employee or representative of our company. He's a nice guy I showed the system to who likes it. I wanted to clarify that.

The point of this system is to bring people together. It is breaking my heart that it's doing quite the opposite right now. I can understand how some of you feel misled. If I had to do it all over again, we would have stopped updating the vbspace thread. Disappointing you guys was the last thing we wanted to do.

At this point, what is done is done. What can we do to help rectify this situation?

Umm, release some actual information? Your underhanded methods of doing this is what the BIGGEST problem is, in my opinion - and I was a lurker on the VBSpace thread, hoping it would eventually see the light of day as my community could really use something like that as well.

Taking ANY form of control from a site owner/staff is a no-no unless they know 100% what is happening prior to that loss of control.

It's really too bad you guys chose to handle this in the fashion you did - even in the form it is in WITH the loss of control, it might have been far more successful if we didn't feel like you broke our trust by hiding the real intent of your product.

I'm sure you're not bad guys or anything but let's face it, trust is a lot harder to gain back than lose. Owners that would be wary of giving you control over areas of their site will now be doubly wary of you due to your chosen path.

That's my take at least. Thanks for hopefully trying to steer things back on track for your product, but it's probably too late for many of us at least until we have some seriously hard facts to draw from.

Krahl

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 16:24
I've worked with private label solutions that allow remotely hosted content to be included on domains or sub domains.
Would this be possible with vbspace?

Sorry I missed you on Google Chat, i'm new to it and got confused!

Can you elaborate on what you mean by what you said. Do you mean music labels who let you link to thier content? Or?

ronoxQ
01 Jun 2006, 16:25
Sure thing, Chris. My apologies to anybody I've offended. I'm still willing to answer questions, though, if anybody cares to ask: my site isn't using this, though, I've just toured the network, so my answers aren't always going to be just what you need.

Friendly- from what I've seen, this isn't YET a feature that vbSpace has. I for one think it would be a good idea.

However, there are some autoalias programs out there (I use one for my site right now, though for other stuff) that could probably put profiles from this onto a subdomain of your site. If you want, I'll PM you with a link to the one that I use.

d1414- I think he means making profiles appear in a subdomain on a forum's main site. As in, my profile right now could be found on, say, ronoxq.omegaseye.com.

rabidkevin
01 Jun 2006, 16:28
It's pretty clear what a lot of people want; to keep their communities independent.

friendly
01 Jun 2006, 16:29
NP, I've got to run soon, anyway.
What I mean is something like infospace does:
http://www.infospaceinc.com/search/privatelabel.php


Sorry I missed you on Google Chat, i'm new to it and got confused!

Can you elaborate on what you mean by what you said. Do you mean music labels who let you link to thier content? Or?

ronoxQ
01 Jun 2006, 16:32
It's pretty clear what a lot of people want; to keep their communities independent.

I don't think they'll object to how vB Space runs this. All I can say on that for now, but it's true.

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 16:32
NP, I've got to run soon, anyway.
What I mean is something like infospace does:
http://www.infospaceinc.com/search/privatelabel.php

Ah, no. You can't integrate a system like that, sorry.

friendly
01 Jun 2006, 16:33
Basically, Infospace feeds its search content to other sites like AOL and Excite but the content looks like it resides on those sites. Astrology.com has a similar set up.

Or it could be where websites are given unique subdomains on the centralized domain.
mysite.whatevervbspacewillbecome.com

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 16:37
Or it could be where websites are given unique subdomains on the centralized domain.
mysite.whatevervbspacewillbecome.com

Yes, that's what you get. YourPersonalUsername.Site.com

KevNJ
01 Jun 2006, 16:39
Post 24 and post 27 are my thoughts as well. Cept I havent been to nice about voicing my opinion on this matter, for that Im sorry.

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 16:44
Maybe we could make a vbspace lite for those of you who just want the local install? No promises, but I *think* we could cut things down (its over 75,000 lines of code at this point heheh) and create a viable solution. I'd have to talk it over with our engineers first of course.

What would be the MAIN features you'd want in this so I can provide a spec sheet and see what it would take.

And it would of course be free.

friendly
01 Jun 2006, 16:45
Hmmm... that's different...
let me look for a better example. There's a dating service that does this whose name escapes me at the moment. I'll search and return.

Yes, that's what you get. YourPersonalUsername.Site.com

Kroby
01 Jun 2006, 16:46
Rather than arguing let me ask this:

What can we do to make this situation right? What can we do to make as many of you happy as possible?

1) open a forum somewhere an the net
2) open a thread by one of you many communauty joigned this project

3) take 2 version from you produc: 1 centralised for people who make busines
and one standalone for non profit or non commercial site, with a licence who say that no ads are aloowed ..

Perhap's one of this is a solution :)

KevNJ
01 Jun 2006, 16:46
Maybe we could make a vbspace lite for those of you who just want the local install? No promises, but I *think* we could cut things down (its over 75,000 lines of code at this point heheh) and create a viable solution. I'd have to talk it over with our engineers first of course.

What would be the MAIN features you'd want in this?

And it would of course be free.

yikes i remember your post saying 42,000. Dayyyyyum...

1:1 myspace clone - non centralized. :cool: ( sorry beign a smart a$$ )

but 75,000 lines.... holy cr@p batman!

friendly
01 Jun 2006, 16:48
David, don't go against your own ideas. Stick with what you're passionate about. It's better to perfect one thing than to try to appease everyone and lose sight of quality.

Maybe we could make a vbspace lite for those of you who just want the local install? No promises, but I *think* we could cut things down (its over 75,000 lines of code at this point heheh) and create a viable solution. I'd have to talk it over with our engineers first of course.

What would be the MAIN features you'd want in this?

And it would of course be free.

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 16:54
David, don't go against your own ideas. Stick with what you're passionate about. It's better to perfect one thing than to try to appease everyone and lose sight of quality.

Definitely not. The main system would be our focus. And i'd be sticking to what i'm passionate about: communities :)

Honestly, I just want to help communities succeed.

friendly
01 Jun 2006, 16:55
okay.. ++++edCompany uses FastCupid (formerly Spring Street ) to power it's dating section.
http://personals.++++edcompany.com/

*apologies for the name... it's not an adult site (at the f word)

The Chief
01 Jun 2006, 16:57
Maybe we could make a vbspace lite for those of you who just want the local install? No promises, but I *think* we could cut things down (its over 75,000 lines of code at this point heheh) and create a viable solution. I'd have to talk it over with our engineers first of course.

What would be the MAIN features you'd want in this so I can provide a spec sheet and see what it would take.

And it would of course be free.
Well just making some suggestions.

- Friend system (using vb's default buddy system but with notifications)
- Profiles (basic ones that we can modify the MEMBERINFO)
- Gallery
- Profile comments
- maybe blog, but doesn't really matter, there are some other ones out there...

These are the only things I would need ;)

friendly
01 Jun 2006, 16:58
They power Nerve.com http://personals.nerve.com/
and Esquire http://personals.esquire.com/

and more http://springstreetnetworks.com/partners_corp/2028.html

criscokid
01 Jun 2006, 17:02
What can we do to make this situation right? What can we do to make as many of you happy as possible?
1: Consider a version that doesn't have the 'centralised profiles'.
2: Make a URL available for peole to see this application in action for themselves.

friendly
01 Jun 2006, 17:03
The big guys know they can't do it all and so they go to Application Service Providers to give them what they want. Long, long time ago, I worked with a company that did the same for community solutions -- message boards, instant messaging and chat. our clients were MTV, Oracle, VH1, CBS, GE and many more.

My point is, I'm beginning to feel that this is a very good idea that needs to be approached with sophistication.

You will be known as Social Network Solution Providers. :)

FlyBoy73
01 Jun 2006, 17:07
There isn't much online that I like less than spending my time posting and monitoring a thread for almost an entire year, only to have it go "poof" for any reason. Closing a thread like this I can fully understand but pulling it off the open forums perm. isn't cool. I know you all (staff) are chewing on this, as we do in my own forums, but please consider carefully why this thread needs to be trashed for the long term, and what are the reasons behind it.

I'm sure there are some that are not happy with the negativity expressed in this thread by those who do not want to use a centralized system. I am/was one of them, and while I still am not to the point where I am willing to use a system like this, I see some of the benefits and think the discussions that took place in that thread are important to all that have been and are interested in it.

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 17:08
2: Make a URL available for peole to see this application in action for themselves.

I'm not sure that I can do that right now because our system *may* be considered a commercial product which is why the thread was removed. I don't want to post a public link and get banned or disrespect vbulletin. If i'm cleared to, I will.

You will be known as Social Network Solution Providers. :)

Heheh, I like that.

:)

friendly
01 Jun 2006, 17:12
I fail to see why the thread was removed. After all, it's still a free script which no one has to pay a penny for. No matter what happens, debate is uber healthy and we cannot hope to contribute to improving the web, by closing threads where people are making good effort to solve a problem. Very sad.

Chris M
01 Jun 2006, 17:15
As both Danny and Brad said, there are things within that thread that need to be discussed by staff and until such things are discussed, it has been removed :)

Chris

xStylezx
01 Jun 2006, 17:21
I fail to see why the thread was removed. After all, it's still a free script which no one has to pay a penny for. No matter what happens, debate is uber healthy and we cannot hope to contribute to improving the web, by closing threads where people are making good effort to solve a problem. Very sad.

I gotta agree.A bit much censoring is happening.I was under the understanding that this hack wasnt being charged for?So im lost as to why its commercial all of a sudden.Also,wtf is going on with the censoring,i mean damn,shouldnt dialogue be supported as that is what gets ideas out.Alot of dictatorships have censoring and cloak and dagger policies,is that what this is all about?(im speaking both on the secrecy of vbspace hack and vb.org censoring) Sometimes i wonder when vb.org is gonna implement a delay for posts to be added as then they can moderate and asterisk any words and phrases they deem hostile or not beneficial for them.I have this funny feeling that eventually this place is going to alienate itself into closure or at least into a ghost forum.....so sad.

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 17:25
I gotta agree.A bit much censoring is happening.I was under the understanding that this hack wasnt being charged for?So im lost as to why its commercial all of a sudden.

We are not charging for it. In fact, forum owners should profit from it. However, we DO have the potential to make a profit in the long term which brings up the "commercial" debate. However, the code that would be released here at vb.org would simply be a single product that allows you to tap into the system.

KevNJ
01 Jun 2006, 17:30
Is this the TOS in violation, by us ( forum operators ) not holding the member info on our servers. So by this being ran we would all be in violation, because this hack/mod would be a 3rd party. No? Or is it another TOS violation. Also the potential to profit from this in a long term is a violation as well I believe.


TOS read like this;
"You undertake to; ensure that, prior to use of the Software by your employees or agents, all such parties are notified of the terms of this Agreement; and hold all data (including object and source codes), software listings and all other information relating to the Software confidential and not at any time, during the period of the licence or after its expiry, disclose the same whether directly or indirectly to any third party without Jelsoft's consent. "

xStylezx
01 Jun 2006, 17:31
We are not charging for it. In fact, forum owners should profit from it. However, we DO have the potential to make a profit in the long term which brings up the "commercial" debate. However, the code that would be released here at vb.org would simply be a single product that allows you to tap into the system.

Thats what i thought.So,after all the work done on the hack by coders it is wrong for them to receive some compensation?Isnt vbulletin a commercial product?Arent these forums used to promote a commercial product and byproducts of that?I dont see a whole lot of difference between posting a paypal button and being compensated in the manner you mentioned d1414.Hmmm,is it possibly that the powers that be dont want their product used to earn a dime unless they get broke off themselves?I dont know really.I just dont see why this has now turned into some sorta money thing.Guess thats what it usually boils down to.

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 17:36
Thats what i thought.So,after all the work done on the hack by coders it is wrong for them to receive some compensation?Isnt vbulletin a commercial product?Arent these forums used to promote a commercial product and byproducts of that?I dont see a whole lot of difference between posting a paypal button and being compensated in the manner you mentioned d1414.Hmmm,is it possibly that the powers that be dont want their product used to earn a dime unless they get broke off themselves?I dont know really.I just dont see why this has now turned into some sorta money thing.Guess thats what it usually boils down to.

The programmers we emply right now aren't being paid near what they are worth. I'd love to be able to pay them industry standard. And pretty much any money we do make will be poured into making the service better.

Part of the problem with all of this is we did not do a good job of communicating the fact that vbspace changed from a local forum install to a cental system so people are upset and feel deceived. Obviously we would NEVER do that on purpose. In hindsight, we should have just closed the vbspace thread when it took the evolution. Because we could not comment on what we were doing otherwise I am confident this would have been stolen from under us.

FlyBoy73
01 Jun 2006, 17:42
Maybe we could make a vbspace lite for those of you who just want the local install? No promises, but I *think* we could cut things down (its over 75,000 lines of code at this point heheh) and create a viable solution. I'd have to talk it over with our engineers first of course.
What would be the MAIN features you'd want in this so I can provide a spec sheet and see what it would take.
And it would of course be free.

David, I think that would be an excellent idea. As I mentioned when we spoke last night, I think you all have a fantastic concept that you are putting into motion, but like you said, it may not be for everyone.

Personally, I think if you all were to make even a scaled down version available to those vB admins/owners that are not comfortable right now with using a centralized system, you would be providing a product that has been in heavy demand for some time. Then, forum owners who become comfortable with the basic system and who you all are may then become ready for the next step - which could mean more traffic and income for them.

The other idea off the top of my head would be to offer an even more advanced stand-alone system for a price. So, if someone is happy with the basic (free) vbspace hack/mod but still isn't that comfortable with the idea of using a centralized system, they can purchase a more feature-rich version. I would pay at least $500 (if not more) for a full featured version of what you all have without thinking twice, and would be willing to pay a yearly upgrade/maint. fee similar to vb and others.
Those who couldn't afford to pay for this still have the option to use the centralized system or the free stand alone "lite" version.

I think this model has the greatest potential to succeed globally. It gives everyone options to expand their communities in ways they are comfortable and even make money.

Of course, I think you should complete what you all started first and then consider the other options.

Krahl
01 Jun 2006, 17:49
Part of the problem with all of this is we did not do a good job of communicating the fact that vbspace changed from a local forum install to a cental system so people are upset and feel deceived.

Feel? No, people were decieved - it is not a matter of feeling one way or the other. You're 100% right that your communication was not handled well. It was not only lacking but deceptive - intentionally so by your own admission (per the comment you made in this very post and others "we could not comment....or the idea would be stolen").

Obviously we would NEVER do that on purpose.

Did you have a straight face when you typed that? ;)

In hindsight, we should have just closed the vbspace thread when it took the evolution.

Not closed it, just notified all those who were waiting on a particular mod that another direction was being taken and a different mod was now underway. It's no crime to think up a better mousetrap but it surely isn't nice to have people waiting around thinking you're about to release something when in all reality not only are you not near to releasing anything much less the item you originally said.

Because we could not comment on what we were doing otherwise I am confident this would have been stolen from under us.

Maybe. Maybe not. Irrelevant really, as you do at least understand where you went wrong with many in the community - that's the biggest hurdle and I appreciate that you've not only seen but stated and apologized for it.

By the way, I did add you to my MSN as you requested as well as tried to contact you.. but nothing ever came from it. Sorry that didn't work out, but give me an IM sometime, I'd still like to look it all over.

Krahl

rabidkevin
01 Jun 2006, 17:50
Maybe we could make a vbspace lite for those of you who just want the local install? No promises, but I *think* we could cut things down (its over 75,000 lines of code at this point heheh) and create a viable solution. I'd have to talk it over with our engineers first of course.

What would be the MAIN features you'd want in this so I can provide a spec sheet and see what it would take.

And it would of course be free.

This would be a great idea. The profile system with ad revenue is not for everyone.

Member Search, Profile Modification/Comments, Groups, Private messaging enhancements, etc. Also support for plugins to add features. We just want to beef up VB a bit to make it a little more like myspace style features.

If you guys don't do this I hope someone does and I will donate big $$ to support the cause.

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 17:51
Of course, I think you should complete what you all started first and then consider the other options.

Definitely. But I make a public promise now to look for additional solutions that will benefit people who do not want to use the centralized system.

The Chief
01 Jun 2006, 17:52
This would be a great idea. The profile system with ad revenue is not for everyone.

Member Search, Profile Modification/Comments, Groups, Private messaging enhancements, etc. Also support for plugins to add features. We just want to beef up VB a bit to make it a little more like myspace style features.

If you guys don't do this I hope someone does and I will donate big $$ to support the cause.
Yup, those are practically what would be the best for the simple people ;)

Krahl
01 Jun 2006, 17:53
FlyBoy has a great point and I agree completely. However, I do think a price of $500 would price most out of the market - it certainly would for my site(s). A dumbed-down version might work but that's also dependent on what is/is not included in it.

Good points FlyBoy, I'll add my "me too."

Krahl

TruthElixirX
01 Jun 2006, 18:02
At all those screaming "We'd pay 500$" you'd be paying way to much. I did a little digging today and there are several scripts for 300-400$; a couple that are less. You could get a 300$ script and pay a free lancer 100$ to integrate it with vBulletin.

KevNJ
01 Jun 2006, 18:02
Anyone else bother reading the vb TOS ? I dont believe something like this can be hosted/centralized without violating the vb TOS. Im not sure about other message board systems. Getting Jelsoft to agree on this could be possible but I dont think it would be possible for them to agree to let this run with other message board systems.

The Chief
01 Jun 2006, 18:08
At all those screaming "We'd pay 500$" you'd be paying way to much. I did a little digging today and there are several scripts for 300-400$; a couple that are less. You could get a 300$ script and pay a free lancer 100$ to integrate it with vBulletin.
It definaetly needs a bit of research :D

d1414
01 Jun 2006, 18:08
Anyone else bother reading the vb TOS ? I dont believe something like this can be hosted/centralized without violating the vb TOS. Im not sure about other message board systems. Getting Jelsoft to agree on this could be possible but I dont think it would be possible for them to agree to let this run with other message board systems.

Our legal team is 100% certain our system in no way violates any TOS. Our code is written from scratch. There's just a small product that installed on your forum that redirects the profile to our system.

FlyBoy73
01 Jun 2006, 18:11
At all those screaming "We'd pay 500$" you'd be paying way to much. I did a little digging today and there are several scripts for 300-400$; a couple that are less. You could get a 300$ script and pay a free lancer 100$ to integrate it with vBulletin.

I'm not screaming anything. I'm simply stating I would pay without a second thought $500 or more for the work they have done in a stand-alone version. I got to see it in action last night and it is very impressive.

I know all about scriptlance, findacoder, etc, etc.. How many of them are hard-core vB programmers? They might be able to install vb, modify templates and install hacks/mods, but I would not trust them to code us a system like this that would interact with the userdb and permissions system of my forums. Then you would need people to update and support it over time. Would they be the one? Maybe for you but not me.

I have looked into getting someone to build a myspace clone, and there are even at least two companies I know of that offer pre-made clone scripts like this, but forum members have to register into a separate system to use it. The only system I am going to want is one that integrates with my vB system, and not one that is just patched together to work.

AZhitman
01 Jun 2006, 18:11
Well, in the (hopefully temporary) absence of the "big thread", at least there's some useful dialogue going on...

Hell, I'd like to see the "naysayers" consulted further, they can only make the product better.

The Chief
01 Jun 2006, 18:19
I have looked into getting someone to build a myspace clone, and there are even at least two companies I know of that offer pre-made clone scripts like this, but forum members have to register into a separate system to use it. The only system I am going to want is one that integrates with my vB system, and not one that is just patched together to work.

Yup, if this system can do this and we could buy a sort of liscence for it, or else we have your ads or a image link or something. :D

KevNJ
01 Jun 2006, 18:22
i like the watered down free non centralized version myself, and the option for a full blown noncenrtalized version ( pay ), and then a full blown centralized version ( pay ) and a free version of the hacks that can be used by themselves, for example just a comments system.

so a lite, premium, and professional versions.

The Chief
01 Jun 2006, 18:24
i like the watered down free non centralized version myself, and the option for a full blown noncenrtalized version ( pay ), and then a full blown centralized version ( pay ) and a free version of the hacks that can be used by themselves, for example just a comments system.

so a lite, premium, and professional versions.
Hmm, interesting concept :)

Martin
01 Jun 2006, 18:25
Our legal team is 100% certain our system in no way violates any TOS. Our code is written from scratch. There's just a small product that installed on your forum that redirects the profile to our system.

The question isn't whether your product violates the TOS/License agreement of vBulletin, it's whether or not the development of a commercial product on vBulletin.org violates the TOS of vBulletin.org, which it clearly does.

No matter which way you flip it, this is a commercial product. It doesn't matter that the download will be free. The fact of the matter is that the network you envision will not exist without this modification, whether it be for vB boards or other board products, and the network is a commercial endeavor.

I believe that you are intending to use this as a product to help communities grow. Our opinions differ greatly in what end result will be, but that's irrelevant. You are using these boards to help develop a commercial product, and to recruit Beta testers for your commercial product. That's what the debate about the TOS violation revolves around.

FlyBoy73
01 Jun 2006, 18:33
FlyBoy has a great point and I agree completely. However, I do think a price of $500 would price most out of the market - it certainly would for my site(s). A dumbed-down version might work but that's also dependent on what is/is not included in it.

Good points FlyBoy, I'll add my "me too."

Krahl

Ok, so that is what it is worth to me :) , and you are right, it would probably be more financially sound to sell more quantity at a lower cost than few at a higher one.

There could always be additional modules for sale covering blogging, galleries, and more? Dunno, but it sounds like David and the rest of the team are now at least considering this. I don't think it is a threat at all to their original business model, which I am very confident will be successful on a large scale once fully implemented. I do think however with this option they will cover just about everyone else that wouldn't use the primary system.

People have hyped & love the big hacks/mods such as vBArcade, vBSEO, vBAdvanced, and many other paid and free hacks.. Well, I think (and with all due respect to those coders) something like this would eclipse them in usage in a very big way. The previous "vbSpace" thread that is now MIA clearly proved that, and at the speed this one is growing, I think it is clear how badly people want a serious social networking addition to their communities.. I have done polls in my largest community and they are hot for it along with blogs and the rest of the features.. I've lost out to myspace for too long and so has everyone else with a community.

One way or another, I am pretty sure we will have both options in the very near future.. I know where the central one is coming from and it is sweet... Not sure yet on the stand-alone, but I hope it will be similar and I know of at least two different people (or groups) that have now jumped into gear on bring that to life.


Great news!
Thanks

[removed promotion]

SuperFly
01 Jun 2006, 18:48
Sorry but tihnk its B.S.

V3arcade......free release but can pay to add more...then should it be blocked from here by being a commercial hack? Why the *Blep* would you even consider removing this? I say its a load of bull and you should ust let them release it. Last i checked, VBSpace was free.

criscokid
01 Jun 2006, 18:53
I've lost out to myspace for too long and so has everyone else with a community.
Absolutely! and as each day passes we're loosing out even more to myspace as it grows in popularity.

ronoxQ
01 Jun 2006, 18:59
I'm not sure that I can do that right now because our system *may* be considered a commercial product which is why the thread was removed. I don't want to post a public link and get banned or disrespect vbulletin. If i'm cleared to, I will.

I think this would be a GREAT idea. That way, people could see WHY making this site into a network is such a good idea.

One idea for if they DO have a vB Space lite: PLEASE allow for upgrades to the full thing in due time, with exports of profiles and the like. That way, the main thing can still grow in size.

I for one am in DISagreement about making a premium version. Make a version for individual forums, but I like the centralized community, and I like the idea about a free version. Just a fraction of the main thing should be fine for most forums, since a lot of the features about the program are just things that replicate vBulletin things. If you do release the full thing for forums, make it free.

Razasharp
01 Jun 2006, 19:05
Can somone fill me in please...

Was the thread removed because it was a commerical product? (If so fair enough).

Also, there's talk abuot the profiles not actually being hosted on the sites own server...? but they just re-direct to this hack authors own servers? If so thats crap! I'd never allow anything like that on my site - I'd rather pay a coder to do a custom job than send traffic to someone else.

Zachery
01 Jun 2006, 19:07
Thats what i thought.So,after all the work done on the hack by coders it is wrong for them to receive some compensation?Isnt vbulletin a commercial product?Arent these forums used to promote a commercial product and byproducts of that?I dont see a whole lot of difference between posting a paypal button and being compensated in the manner you mentioned d1414.Hmmm,is it possibly that the powers that be dont want their product used to earn a dime unless they get broke off themselves?I dont know really.I just dont see why this has now turned into some sorta money thing.Guess thats what it usually boils down to. No, vBulletin.org is about free code and not for people to advertise their commerical endevours.

Benj
01 Jun 2006, 19:09
ive seen this thing..... its bassically geocities for n00bs

The Chief
01 Jun 2006, 19:11
ive seen this thing..... its bassically geocities for n00bs
Geocities, lmao, never heard that one before... :D

FlyBoy73
01 Jun 2006, 19:17
ive seen this thing..... its bassically geocities for n00bs

Yeah, and there are virtually no changes between vb2.0 & 3.6, right?

Try again..

ronoxQ
01 Jun 2006, 19:20
Yeah, and there are virtually no changes between vb2.0 & 3.6, right?

Try again..

Agreed.

Martin
01 Jun 2006, 19:21
Thats what i thought.So,after all the work done on the hack by coders it is wrong for them to receive some compensation?Isnt vbulletin a commercial product?Arent these forums used to promote a commercial product and byproducts of that?I dont see a whole lot of difference between posting a paypal button and being compensated in the manner you mentioned d1414.Hmmm,is it possibly that the powers that be dont want their product used to earn a dime unless they get broke off themselves?I dont know really.I just dont see why this has now turned into some sorta money thing.Guess thats what it usually boils down to.

There is nothing at all wrong with people receiving compensation and vBulletin doesn't begrudge anyone a penny they can make by creating commercial mods. In fact, when we're asked by potential customers if specific features exist, or if a third party application exists, we have no problem in referring them to commercial mods that meet their needs, and we don't make a penny from the referral. We also have no problems in referring people to the sites we know of that develop commercial styles. Again, we don't receive a penny for this.
The fact of the matter, as stated before, is that they were using this board to develop and recruit testers for a commercial modification. This is a violation of both the spirit and the rules of these boards. You can accept that or not, it still won't change the facts.

Please quit trying to paint Jelsoft as some corporation that cares about money and nothing else. Everyone who has dealt with us knows differently.

ronoxQ
01 Jun 2006, 19:26
This mod is currently designed to tune in to vBulletin forums. Therefore, it is a vBulletin mod.

TruthElixirX
01 Jun 2006, 19:32
This mod is currently designed to tune in to vBulletin forums. Therefore, it is a vBulletin mod.
I didnt' see anyone disagree with this fact.

The point that is being made here is this:

You cannot use this board to recruit testing for a mod that is going to go pay only. It is some what like IPB did. Got people to test 2.0 for free, thne started charging for it. Nto the same, but similiar.

I think things might go differently if a free/lite version was to be released as well.

j883376
01 Jun 2006, 19:33
I didnt' see anyone disagree with this fact.

The point that is being made here is this:

You cannot use this board to recruit testing for a mod that is going to go pay only. It is some what like IPB did. Got people to test 2.0 for free, thne started charging for it. Nto the same, but similiar.

I think things might go differently if a free/lite version was to be released as well.
I seriously would love to know, why is everybody hellbent on the idea that vB Space is going to pay only. It has been stated MANY MANY times that its going to BE free and STAY free.

FlyBoy73
01 Jun 2006, 19:34
I guess we need to determine what exactly "commercial" is in this case and maybe some others.

If what they are offering is actually free, though members can make money using it, is that commercial? I wouldn't think so...

I mean, to compare... I have used hacks that help me interface into other paid scripts.. Those hacks were not considered commercial, even though I actually have paid for the other scripts that they were helping me to use with my vb forums.

I'm not here to be argumentative, and like I have said, I probably won't be using (at least at this point) any centralized system, but if the question about the original thread is because it was commercial, I don't exactly see it, especially since it evolved...

PS. Though it was not directed at me, I definitely don't think Jelsoft cares only about the money and nothing else.. Just like I don't think coders that charge for hacks are bad, etc.. I think there should be a commercial directory here, even if they have to pay to it, but that is slightly off-topic. :)

I seriously would love to know, why is everybody hellbent on the idea that vB Space is going to pay only. It has been stated MANY MANY times that its going to BE free and STAY free.

Actually, it is not only going to be free using the centralized system they have setup - it has the potential to be profitable to people with adsense accounts who's members use their system.

rabidkevin
01 Jun 2006, 19:36
After previewing the demo, this is totally not what I was looking for :/
This is like linking a users profile to myspace. I don't feel as though hundreds of thousands of people will surf thru the communities on your portal site to join other communities. Thanks for your time and I hope to see a stand alone product from anyone in the near future.

ronoxQ
01 Jun 2006, 19:42
It's free right now. And that's how it'll stay.

j883376
01 Jun 2006, 19:42
Actually, it is not only going to be free using the centralized system they have setup - it has the potential to be profitable to people with adsense accounts who's members use their system.
Free and commercial are two totally different things.

vB Space will cost people nothing. Yes, some money will be made via Adsense, but you guys are getting this all for free, why whine that they will make a bit of money for all their hard work?

There have been plenty of hacks on here that have been released as free with 1 or 2 total features, but you can't get all of the features unless you pay like $10. vB Space is going to be 100% free.

TruthElixirX
01 Jun 2006, 19:43
It's free right now. And that's how it'll stay.
What in the world is going on then? Is this a compeltely different thing then what Danny.VBT was working on? Because I used ot chat with him in IRC and back then plans were 1.0 free, 2.0 paid, and then I saw a slow transition to paid only.

*sigh* I guess I'm just confused.

j883376
01 Jun 2006, 19:44
What in the world is going on then? Is this a compeltely different thing then what Danny.VBT was working on? Because I used ot chat with him in IRC and back then plans were 1.0 free, 2.0 paid, and then I saw a slow transition to paid only.

*sigh* I guess I'm just confused.
Yes, this is completely different. Theres no plan for a version 1.0 and 2.0 with 2.0 being paid.

TruthElixirX
01 Jun 2006, 19:46
Yes, this is completely different. Theres no plan for a version 1.0 and 2.0 with 2.0 being paid.
And with that I bow out of this discussion with my tail between me legs.

FlyBoy73
01 Jun 2006, 19:47
Free and commercial are two totally different things.

vB Space will cost people nothing. Yes, some money will be made via Adsense, but you guys are getting this all for free, why whine that they will make a bit of money for all their hard work?

There have been plenty of hacks on here that have been released as free with 1 or 2 total features, but you can't get all of the features unless you pay like $10. vB Space is going to be 100% free.

You should read my message rather than just quoting it. You are preaching to the wrong person, son.

What in the world is going on then? Is this a compeltely different thing then what Danny.VBT was working on? Because I used ot chat with him in IRC and back then plans were 1.0 free, 2.0 paid, and then I saw a slow transition to paid only.

*sigh* I guess I'm just confused.

Another reason why the original vBSpace thread should be brought back. There are a lot of people who have no idea what has transpired in the last couple of days.

rabidkevin
01 Jun 2006, 19:48
Basically they talked about there being a stand alone VBspace product for close to a year, and just now disclose this information. Discussion has always been in the sense of it being a product we install alone on our system. In my view these are 2 completely different worlds. The modification to our own personal site is minimal, while this "75,000 and count growing lines of code" is merely your own website portal. I'm sure myspace has hundreds of thousands of lines of code, too. Of course Im just repeating what others have said already so sorry about that. Do a lot of people agree after seeing the demo that this is not what they expected or wanted from vbspace?

criscokid
01 Jun 2006, 19:49
After previewing the demo, this is totally not what I was looking for :/
This is like linking a users profile to myspace. I don't feel as though hundreds of thousands of people will surf thru the communities on your portal site to join other communities. Thanks for your time and I hope to see a stand alone product from anyone in the near future.
I have to agree with you. Being a 'centralised application' it'll probably put people (my target audience) off joining my site.

SuperFly
01 Jun 2006, 19:50
Can somone fill me in please...

Was the thread removed because it was a commerical product? (If so fair enough).

Also, there's talk abuot the profiles not actually being hosted on the sites own server...? but they just re-direct to this hack authors own servers? If so thats crap! I'd never allow anything like that on my site - I'd rather pay a coder to do a custom job than send traffic to someone else.

Why?

Less strain on your server....plus no management needed for it.

FlyBoy73
01 Jun 2006, 19:52
"I've got Opterons.. I'm not afraid..." :p

jon75
01 Jun 2006, 19:56
Why?

Less strain on your server....plus no management needed for it.

And we should all just go with activeboard.com or something like that, right? After all, we wouldn't want any management involved...

@rabidkevin
I compleatly agree with you.

Razasharp
01 Jun 2006, 19:56
I couldn't quote a post that was deleted - but I had a quick read of the system and must say I'm really dissapointed.

We all thought we were getting a hack for OUR forums, not some hack that helps build the database of someone elses site. If they had been honest from day one maybe I'd feel differently but it does feel like we've been led on a bit.

I still wouldn't use the system even if I knew how it was going to work, because I'm not the slightest bit interested in partnering with someone else, sending them my memberbase which I've worked really hard to build.

If they wanted to make money out of the hack they should have just made it commercial and charged for it. I don't like what they've done and it does feel like they've used vborg, and I'm not surprised the thread has been deleted.

SuperFly
01 Jun 2006, 20:00
And we should all just go with activeboard.com or something like that, right? After all, we wouldn't want any management involved...



Sorry

you know there are some admins, who like the idea of hacks, but are afraid because they wouldn't know what to do if something went wrong, and this way its like basically a fast, easy, non hassle service.

Also, i love how your first post is here, not suspicious at all.

Zachery
01 Jun 2006, 20:03
Sorry

you know there are some admins, who like the idea of hacks, but are afraid because they wouldn't know what to do if something went wrong, and this way its like basically a fast, easy, non hassle service.

Also, i love how your first post is here, not suspicious at all.
You do know posts are not counted in lots of the forums :p

vBintense
01 Jun 2006, 20:03
It is a nice system, for them. But it will be a fast and furious fad with any real community owner.

As members go there and leave your community due to they found bigger one, and as this company sokes in all the profits from your toils.

I have already started to toy with php to make one, due to I need a local solution not something to hinder my comunity.

Razasharp
01 Jun 2006, 20:08
It is a nice system, for them. But it will be a fast and furious fad with any real community owner.

As members go there and leave your community due to they found bigger one, and as this company sokes in all the profits from your toils.

I have already started to toy with php to make one, due to I need a local solution not something to hinder my comunity.

I very much agree with you!

Please keep us posted on such a hack and if you need any testers I'm up for it! :) (And thanks for considering giving us what we really wanted)

amykhar
01 Jun 2006, 20:12
Gang, my closure of this thread is not a vote of approval or dispproval for this modification.

The original thread was moved by the mod author pending staff discussion. Any further questions you have about the mod itself can now be discussed at its forum at http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=185

Any further threads on this subject will be immediately closed.

Thanks for understanding

Amy