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Shelley_c
03 Jun 2006, 14:04
To be brief. I find the current layout (I'm speaking of the graphics area) poor. I can't even tell if a new post/reply has been made and with me undertaking requests and performing modifications, How am I supposed to tell without me having to click a link and scrolling through four catergorys of areas.

It's like everything I said/suggested (to Brad) was just ignored. I know graphics aren't a big deal to this type of board but that's because it was neglected from the start. Now you've just thrown it in an area which leads me to think the graphics area wasn't and isn't even being taken seriously.

I'm enjoying contributing to this area but atleast show some respect for the work people have done by giving it a better placement.

MPDev
03 Jun 2006, 14:16
Which skin are you using? I use Smooth Blue and think it looks the same as it did before the conversion.

GrendelKhan{TSU
03 Jun 2006, 14:17
I'd have to agree. And I'm NOT one of those types that complains everytime or just cause something is changed. but in this case, I've gone from... find stuff easily to...
where the hell is everything?

simplicity is best. and in this case you've grouped stuff so much that its either buried (inconvenient) or just not anywhere you'd expect it to be.

I'll give it some time to get used to, and though I'm sure I'll learn to find stuff again... there is no way it will be as convenient as the simple FLAT on level set up you had previously.

ericgtr
03 Jun 2006, 14:26
I have to agree as well, it looks really bland without the normal forumhome features and without going into the forums you have no idea what's updated.

Shelley_c
03 Jun 2006, 14:40
This is so fustrating. You make a suggestion (only be told forum structure is in progress) hopefully for the better, Because, to be honest, I am blue in the face trying to give suggestions to give the graphics database the content that it deserves only to see it in it's stupid location, and believe me it's possibly in the worst location that it could have been moved into. If staff start looking at the graphic database as a major source and also look at the bigger picture in regards what the graphics database could be.

Even I could have spent 5 minutes restructuring that area against the "months of staff collaboration" (which is obviously flawed) and gave this area better placement. Granted, the install intergration is nice (although I was against this) but you can't honestly expect contributors to be happy with it's placement. That's my only beef, and, a reply would be nice and hopefully staff can explain why this area just took a turn for the worse.

Brad
03 Jun 2006, 14:45
What is wrong with is placement? :) How do you suggest we change it?

I'm honestly at a lost with what to do with it at this point..graphics can be used over nearly every version so I don't want to place them in the other sections.

Shelley_c
03 Jun 2006, 14:49
What is wrong with is placement? :) How do you suggest we change it?

I'm honestly at a lost with what to do with it at this point..graphics can be used over nearly every version so I don't want to place them in the other sections.

Thanks Brad for atleast asking how it can be changed.

My first suggestion would be to give the graphic area it's own catergory with the 3 forums (smileys, buttons, misc) displayed on the index page. If that's to much, atleast give the graphics area it's own forum with two subforums to make the other areas up. That way, people know when there's an update or a new submission been made.

peterska2
03 Jun 2006, 16:38
I'd like to see it moved up the modifications page too as below vB2 it will never be seen as that part is obsolete. The best location would be directly below the 3.5 mods, then move up each time a new version comes out so it is always the second box.

Shelley, you can access the graphics forum standard layout by clicking on the graphics title (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=164)

Shelley_c
03 Jun 2006, 16:50
I'd like to see it moved up the modifications page too as below vB2 it will never be seen as that part is obsolete. The best location would be directly below the 3.5 mods, then move up each time a new version comes out so it is always the second box.

Shelley, you can access the graphics forum standard layout by clicking on the graphics title (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=164)


Can you understand why people get so fustrated? What you suggested is not solving the problem. I'll be damned if I'm going to click every minute worrying whether someone has made a request because I don't know whether someone just made a request.

Brad asked me to give a suggestion, which i gave, which is obviously been ignored yet again.

peterska2
03 Jun 2006, 16:56
Shelley, my suggestion there is for the releases part. I've already had a word with Brad about the requests part.

In the first post of this thread you said How am I supposed to tell without me having to click a link and scrolling through four catergorys of areas. By move it to the second category, this eliminates the need to scroll to the bottom for yourself, and also places it in a much more prominent position giving it better exposure.

Shelley_c
03 Jun 2006, 17:02
Kerry, I'm here to contribute. 99% of my posts are posts of substance, I haven't requested 1 thing from anyone here. I have been here for a few months now posting content and going out of my way fufilling requests. I'm not complaining for the hell of it, you ought to remember that.

My posts are ignored (why?) Well, beats me. You just spoken to brad but hey I just gave brad a solution.

edit: You could still move it up and still I wouldn't be aware if anyone has posted a request if your referring that it stays in the same area but moved up.

Every resource board has it's own graphic database area. For some reason vb.org did (neglected) but now it's been given a backseat.

Daniel
03 Jun 2006, 17:11
It will take a while to get used to, but I thing it's a nice change.

Shelley_c
03 Jun 2006, 17:59
Understand it from someone that constantly needs to visit this area and fill requests/update threads. For me, I wouldn't know whether someone has requested a modification if i'm on the forum index page. And, like I said, I'm not prepared to linger in the modifications area just to wait for a request.

The placement is bad enough, wouldn't matter if it was moved to a more prominent position, I still would'nt know whether a request has been made for a modiciation of any of the graphics I submitted.

I hate beating about the bush. Brad? what's happening to the graphic database? will it be staying in it's current location or will it be moved (like I suggested above).

EasyTarget
03 Jun 2006, 18:31
what about subforums in vb3, 3.5 and 2 which link to the graphics forum? Make it so the linked subforum shows the latest entries and all as well.

and maybe a link to the graphics stuff like the modification database on the main forum page, except for graphics/styles database?

Shelley_c
03 Jun 2006, 18:55
It still wouldn't solve the problem without me or anyone else needing to be in the modifications area. You can't expect anyone to stay in the modifications area to fill a request. Sorry Easytarget if I seem a little blunt.

Another solution. Why not create a new catergory (forum index page) "Styles and Graphic Sets" or "Styles and graphics" and insert the styles forum on the forum home page and name the other graphic release areas "Graphics database"? this way there would be subforums for the two remaining areas. This means posts which are replied (requested modifications) the author (person making the modification) can see new posts have been made and not forgetting the styles area and graphic database would compliment one another perfectly.

Styles & Graphic Database

-Styles
--styles 3.5
--styles 2.x.x
-Graphics database
-- smiley sets
--button sets
-- misc sets

JakeS
03 Jun 2006, 21:42
I Think its better because it helps the server load it because it has less graphics there for your computer hasn't got to load as much and it makes less strain on the server.

EasyTarget
03 Jun 2006, 22:29
It still wouldn't solve the problem without me or anyone else needing to be in the modifications area. You can't expect anyone to stay in the modifications area to fill a request. Sorry Easytarget if I seem a little blunt.

Another solution. Why not create a new catergory (forum index page) "Styles and Graphic Sets" or "Styles and graphics" and insert the styles forum on the forum home page and name the other graphic release areas "Graphics database"? this way there would be subforums for the two remaining areas. This means posts which are replied (requested modifications) the author (person making the modification) can see new posts have been made and not forgetting the styles area and graphic database would compliment one another perfectly.

Styles & Graphic Database

-Styles
--styles 3.5
--styles 2.x.x
-Graphics database
-- smiley sets
--button sets
-- misc setsmaybe you just didn't understand what I was saying, its like what you proposed, but more extensive.

Shelley_c
03 Jun 2006, 22:42
maybe you just didn't understand what I was saying, its like what you proposed, but more extensive.

*Impersinates Boofo* I know when to quit, so I'll happily hand the baton onto you. Sir.

EasyTarget
04 Jun 2006, 00:16
I also think they should move styles and graphics together.

As well as move the article forum to the .org forum area, maybe combine some of those forums with other areas, combine general and community forums, maybe lose a couple of the subforums there. this will free up some room on the main page which looks cluttered imo.

maybe even install some sort of aricles system instead of using the forums and add tab at the top which links to articles (home, forum, mods, articles, chat)

something like this

vb.org
-anouncements
-site feedback
-articles
-link to general/community discussions (show recent posts)
--lounge
--presales
--big boards
--secret coder forum

modifications
-3.5
--templates
--plugins
--extensions
--code modifications
--link to syles 3.5 and grahpics (show recent posts)
--requests
--hosted 3.5
--premim 3.5 (paying members can download hacks in here)
-3.0
--full releases
--beta releases
--templates
--link to styles 3.0 and graphics (show recent posts)
--requests
--hosted 3.0
--premium 3.0 (paying members can download hacks in here)
-vb programming (combine programming discussion from general discussion w/ questions and discussion)

styles and graphics
-styles
--3.5 styles
--3.0 styles
--requests maybe ?
-graphics
--smiles
--buttons
--avatars & misc
-styles and graphics discussion (take from general discussion)

and give people the option (like they have now) to show only the 3.0 or 3.5 section, maybe do the same with other parts.

for premium forums only allow members who have joined the cool premium member club access (monthly or yearly fee). Allow coders who have been here for X amount of time and/or have released X amount of hacks and/or has X reputation from fellow coders and/or has X reputation from members to make releases + require a lite version? Coders who have met the above requirements get X % of monies after X amount of time (to ensure quality and support). Maybe give X amount/% of money for Y amount of installs after X amount of time.

This way people aren't selling hacks per say, its more of a premium club giving access to those who join the club and their money is distributed among the premium hackers and the .org.


hmm.. this should be in its own thread :p

Krahl
04 Jun 2006, 00:56
*Impersinates Boofo* I know when to quit, so I'll happily hand the baton onto you. Sir.

Sorry, but you're just coming across as really rude. There's no need for all the nastiness you've been spewing all throughout this thread. I'm sure it's due to some pent up frustration but this approach makes you look childish and adversarial - which is probably 180 degrees from the way you would choose to be viewed.

I'm sure you've done a ton for the community but you might want to show a bit more consideration and "lead by example" on how things should be. Is this how you'd want users approaching YOU for help or a change or...?

Just my .02, from a plain old member reading the rants. Good luck getting it figured out the way it works best for you and the community.

Krahl

Shelley_c
04 Jun 2006, 01:15
Sorry, but you're just coming across as really rude. There's no need for all the nastiness you've been spewing all throughout this thread. I'm sure it's due to some pent up frustration but this approach makes you look childish and adversarial - which is probably 180 degrees from the way you would choose to be viewed.

I'm sure you've done a ton for the community but you might want to show a bit more consideration and "lead by example" on how things should be. Is this how you'd want users approaching YOU for help or a change or...?

Just my .02, from a plain old member reading the rants. Good luck getting it figured out the way it works best for you and the community.

Krahl

I would listen to members who make suggestions. Not ignore them. But of course, your correct my humour could be considered as being rude which is why I have given up giving valid suggestions. However, I've been making valid suggestions in most of this thread just not at the latter stages.

Krahl
04 Jun 2006, 01:26
I would listen to members who make suggestions. Not ignore them. But of course, your correct my humour could be considered as being rude which is why I have given up giving valid suggestions. However, I've been making valid suggestions in most of this thread just not at the latter stages.

Actually, I was talking about the way you were making the suggestions earlier in the thread. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the time you spend helping others in the community - that's awesome. Your "suggestions" in this thread through - and some other comments - came across as quite rude. I could pull a few for you if you want, but you probably know what I mean.

Anyway, not trying to insult you or start a flamewar of any sort.. just trying to let you know how you are being percieved by at least some of the membership. It's probably not your intention to come across that way (I sometimes have the same problem) so better to be alerted than ignorant of it. ;)

Onward!

Ohiosweetheart
04 Jun 2006, 01:28
I must agree with Shelley and can understand her frustration.

I logged on here this morning to see that the site was down for 'restructuring". NICE, I thought. So I log back on this afternoon, to find the graphics areas scattered all over the site.

Realistically, why can't a new area be created for Styles and Graphics. It would contain ALL style releases, graphics releases, requests, discussions, articles, etc.

I see some people saying that the graphics aren't as important as the other areas. That's simply not true. You think members are going to register at an ugly site? Content might keep them there, but graphics is the first thing they see.

C'mon .org....... give graphics the recognition it deserves, and don't make those of us to whom they are important have to dig for them ;)

Shelley_c
04 Jun 2006, 01:28
Actually, I was talking about the way you were making the suggestions earlier in the thread. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the time you spend helping others in the community - that's awesome. Your "suggestions" in this thread through - and some other comments - came across as quite rude. I could pull a few for you if you want, but you probably know what I mean.

Anyway, not trying to insult you or start a flamewar of any sort.. just trying to let you know how you are being percieved by at least some of the membership. It's probably not your intention to come across that way (I sometimes have the same problem) so better to be alerted than ignorant of it. ;)

Onward!

Actually I don't. Please do quote away.

Krahl
04 Jun 2006, 02:00
Shelley,

I'm going to PM it, as I don't intend to make this into some "gripe at Shelley" thread - especially as it will continue to be off-topic. I should have just done that in the first place anyway, my apologies for that.

Some examples coming up. ;)

Jerry

Shelley_c
04 Jun 2006, 02:10
Shelley,

I'm going to PM it, as I don't intend to make this into some "gripe at Shelley" thread - especially as it will continue to be off-topic. I should have just done that in the first place anyway, my apologies for that.

Some examples coming up. ;)

Jerry

While I await your pm my only gripe was the placement. Again, Try to understand it from a contributors point of view. I only want to contribute, and I'm happy enough to do this but I won't whilst the current layout is present. I can't tell whether there's a reply from the index page, and when I do click the first link to get into the area I still can't tell if anyone has made a request because it shows the last 5 newest submissions. I am constantly undertaking requests and making modifications which is time consuming in itself which also means members don't get their requests fast enough. Not only that, I was asked by brad to make a suggestion which I did, more than 2 suggestions which were not aswered back. My time is limted and anyone that is contributing into this area (graphic releases) will find it even harder now to keep up the pace of all the requests.

It's getting late, so if this is sounding rude I apoligise. But being asked to make sugggestions by a staff member only to have your suggestion ignored is rude in itself.

Anyway, I'm stepping away from this thread now in the hope that staff consider the feedback me and what other people have put to the table.

Krahl
04 Jun 2006, 02:14
Shelley,

I know you do a lot of work for folks and, like I said, that's great. When I first came to .org I'd hoped for help with graphics as well - no such luck.

I certainly hope the things you are looking for come to pass, as I agree with your points concerning their location and usefulness.

BTW, PM sent. ;)

Krahl

akanevsky
04 Jun 2006, 02:21
I find the layout poor and highly unusable too. It took me about 10 minutes to find where the how to articles where, which speaks for itself.

EasyTarget
04 Jun 2006, 02:28
I was asked by brad to make a suggestion which I did, more than 2 suggestions which were not aswered back. My time is limted and anyone that is contributing into this area (graphic releases) will find it even harder now to keep up the pace of all the requests. just give it time. I don't think you were ignored, but just like you, they are busy as well. In the space of a few hours you made several posts. Maybe someone could post and say, "thanks for the comments, we're thinking stuff over", in reality not much time has passed that you should jump to the conclusion that you're being ignored imo.

Krahl
04 Jun 2006, 02:44
Good point easy target... but I can also see how someone would feel ignored if they were asked to give advice, did so and then their advice was not implemented as well not getting a response about their advise.

Alongside that, when someone is volunteering and their job is made harder by seemingly illogical decisions (in the face of seemingly ignored *requested* advice), it can definitely be hard to swallow.

Anyway, I'm sure you realize that stuff.. I'm just voicing it to put it "out there."

Cheers

Princeton
04 Jun 2006, 12:56
I find the layout poor and highly unusable too. It took me about 10 minutes to find where the how to articles where, which speaks for itself.10 minutes that's all? That's what happens with every new interface ... there is a "learning process".

Princeton
04 Jun 2006, 13:00
While I await your pm my only gripe was the placement. Again, Try to understand it from a contributors point of view. I only want to contribute, and I'm happy enough to do this but I won't whilst the current layout is present. I can't tell whether there's a reply from the index page, and when I do click the first link to get into the area I still can't tell if anyone has made a request because it shows the last 5 newest submissions. I am constantly undertaking requests and making modifications which is time consuming in itself which also means members don't get their requests fast enough. Not only that, I was asked by brad to make a suggestion which I did, more than 2 suggestions which were not aswered back. My time is limted and anyone that is contributing into this area (graphic releases) will find it even harder now to keep up the pace of all the requests.

It's getting late, so if this is sounding rude I apoligise. But being asked to make sugggestions by a staff member only to have your suggestion ignored is rude in itself.

Anyway, I'm stepping away from this thread now in the hope that staff consider the feedback me and what other people have put to the table.every suggestion goes into consideration ... it doesn't mean it will or will not be done .. there are many things to consider

Shelley_c
04 Jun 2006, 14:40
Don't worry about it, I'm not, I tried and I can only say I gave it 100%. When and if the suggestions passes I'll start contributing again. Untill then, I won't increase any unnecessary workload.

That last statement was more for the members who are still making requests and wondering why I ceased supporting/performing modifications this is something I'm not happy about and I think members deserved more than this.

Ohiosweetheart
04 Jun 2006, 21:08
I agree Shelley. Now the members suffer since precious few others even bother to fulfill requests. :(

10 minutes that's all? That's what happens with every new interface ... there is a "learning process".

You're missing the point... this one is poorly laid out. No question about it

Neal-UK
07 Jun 2006, 00:39
I find the new look awful. Things are hard to find. I used to be able to go the the main forum, see that new posts had been made in the mod area and then view the topics and updates posted.

Now, it's all a clutter and really annoying looking for things and mods.

Put it back to what it was before.

Marco van Herwaarden
07 Jun 2006, 08:21
Personally i am also not used to the new layout yet. I will however give it a try for at least a week to see if i will get used to it.

I don't think anyone want to have an unusable layout here. Give it a little time and i am sure that things will be tuned to make it more usable or if it is a complete failure (sure that can happen) more drastic changes will be done.

Input from anybody will be considered when changes are made, but i think it is too early to change it again immediatly.

peterska2
07 Jun 2006, 10:29
http://www.peterska2.co.uk/images/smilies/eek5.gif You made me look at the forumhome. I think it's only about the third time I've seen in this year!

Seems fine to me, but then again I can't remember what is was like before. :p

Ohiosweetheart
07 Jun 2006, 11:11
Personally i am also not used to the new layout yet. I will however give it a try for at least a week to see if i will get used to it.

I don't think anyone want to have an unusable layout here. Give it a little time and i am sure that things will be tuned to make it more usable or if it is a complete failure (sure that can happen) more drastic changes will be done.

Input from anybody will be considered when changes are made, but i think it is too early to change it again immediatly.

It's easy to say give it time, but when people log on here, and can't find things they used to be able to easily find, and see areas that they used to be able to easily get to, scattered everywhere (yes talking about the graphics again), it's frustrating and irritating. Many won't give it a chance.

Honestly I have to say, that with all these griping and complaining threads all over the place... y'all should have left the layout alone until the other stuff died down. What you did was add fuel to their fire ;)

Shelley_c
07 Jun 2006, 12:46
Well just so you know (brad). I'm getting extremely bored and would like to start contributing again (I'm not going to lie, I like it here). How about the graphics area being giving a forum index (like before) status location?

Members are finding it irratating and unusable. The area was active (in it's old location) it barely active now. That's got to say something? I'm willing (and I'm sure other designers) are willing to give this area the attention it deserves if it's considered to be worth it by the staff.

EasyTarget
07 Jun 2006, 16:12
I'm pretty sure they're discussing/working on something else, but you wouldn't want them to rush into another design which would fail would you? The new design has some good things, some not so good things.. its just a matter of weeding out the not so good.

Its obvious you have a love of graphics shelly, from your work and your energy and I too hope they come up with an area where visual work is given a bit more attention, but I'm ok with it if it means waiting a little extra time for this to happen.

On a side note, I don't think they intentionally made it difficult to access the graphics.

Shelley_c
07 Jun 2006, 16:27
I don't think they intentially made it more difficult. But the fact still remains that they have. The graphics area is prity much spot on with the new features, it's the location and not being able to see new posts/requests that have been made. To make matters worse, once you access the area you only see the last 5 latest submissions. To me, this wasn't thought about (and before) I made suggestions about renaming the sub headings which I even wrote (which could have been copy and pasted) and still, the sub headings are left empty. From day 1 this area has been neglected and (just my opinion) it's an area which members could greatly benefit from but never have because nobody has posted on a regular basis to give the impression that there is/could be a great graphic database.

The last thing members want is having to pay for graphics when they could get them free on this forum. By the looks of things the area has one dedicated contributor and a few other contributors. This in turn (pending if staff mainly brad) look at what the area could become could produce a great graphic database.

I've just had to turn down a request which I hate doing all because of the area being allocated to an area which doesn't benefit anybody.

The only reason why I'm being presistant is because people are still making requests and I don't want to give off the impression that I'm simply ignoring them. It looks bad on me because I submitted them and I've already had to remove 2 sets because only I've been able to perform the modifications.

It's not asking for much when you think about it when suggestions/solutions have been made in this thread.

EasyTarget
07 Jun 2006, 16:43
Yes, I agree that the graphics section needs more work/attention and that it could bring in a lot more people and contributors to the community. Maybe they don't have the people in the staff who share the same ideas, in which case it might be a good move to add some staff, people like yourself who love graphical work, who would try to spice up that section and could spend time on it because they aren't also worrying about all the other sections.

Shelley_c
07 Jun 2006, 16:57
Now that doesn't sound to promising. And thinking about it, I think your not far off the truth. I wouldn't want a staff position though I can see that this may be a lost cause. It doesn't take but a little common sense to figure out that the new implementation just simply doesn't work.

Am I wrong Brad?

Roms
07 Jun 2006, 23:58
I personally like the layout and I don't find it unusable. If I click on the main category (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=164) I can see who has posted last and I like seeing who has added new graphics to that area on the main page. I also like the fact that I can click install and release graphics with more of a Modification layout.

With that said, Shelly does post in that area a lot so her input should be highly considered. She has breathed a lot of life into that area. A few little changes here or there of her sake shouldn't hurt a thing. ;)