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vB.Org System
15 Dec 2008, 13:40
The vBulletin 4 project is progressing quickly and we are in a position to share some further information about what to expect in our next new major version release.

In August, we announced a major overhaul of the code base. Rather than targeting all of these changes in a single, long-term release, we intend to accomplish all the planned improvements over a number of versions. In order to achieve this goal, the largest vBulletin development team ever assembled is now working within an Agile development process, allowing us to deliver new features into your hands faster.

Each incremental release in the vBulletin 4 series will include improvements in features, usability and architecture. Development efforts are prioritized towards those areas that can provide real, tangible benefits to our customers, at all times with an eye toward maintaining and enhancing the performance and reliability expected of a vBulletin product.

The goal of the vBulletin 4 series is to develop a modern, scalable application platform that will allow your communities to thrive.

Key features and improvements that will be included in the first vBulletin 4 release are:

Cross-content search system providing a single interface to search across forum posts, blog entries and comments and other supported products
Improved search performance
A fresh design and layout making use of semantic markup and CSS styling
An enhanced style and template system to enhance your ability to change the layout
Controls to assist with the placement of advertising elements
SEO features, including friendly URLs
A centralized attachment system, allowing the sharing of attachments across products
Alongside significant strides forward within the vBulletin forum product, we are also producing a new content management system to facilitate the creation, editing and publishing of non-forum pages. Further details about CMS features, and how it will integrate with vBulletin will be posted in due course.

We are working hard and plan to have vBulletin 4.0 released in beta form in early Q2 of 2009.

I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your continuing support of vBulletin. We are really excited about version 4, and we're looking forward to bringing you further updates via general announcements and periodic development blog posts focusing on individual areas.


More... (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=293772&goto=newpost)

Lrsamuel
15 Dec 2008, 14:03
That's exciting. I can't wait to see the new version.

Spank
15 Dec 2008, 14:06
Woot nice one. CMS, decent search, SEO, and that's just to begin with. Can hardly wait ^_^

m2006
15 Dec 2008, 14:51
Thanks you for new version

fattony69
15 Dec 2008, 15:14
Wow, I am happy, yet some of the modifications like vBSEO that I paid for become in a way, useless, but thank god there is more "bang for the buck" and they took the suggestions of many of us!

Magnumutz
15 Dec 2008, 15:26
Can't wait for it... it sounds awesome :D
Most of all, because of the new layout and stuff :)

cheat-master30
15 Dec 2008, 15:31
Excellent news by Jelsoft, and I am really looking forward to vBulletin 4, now at least a lot more useful details and information have/has been given out. The new style sounds good for a start, and I'm quite wondering what's going to happen to vB SEO now their business plan has gone down the drain. Oh well, and there's a CMS (despite me not needing one at this moment, it sounds fantastic, and it shows that Jelsoft really do listen to the suggestions).

mallupirates
15 Dec 2008, 17:02
WOW!! I can hardly wait to see and try out the new version of vBulletin. I'll surely change my forum vb version to the new one when released. Best of luck, team Jelsoft!

SEOvB
15 Dec 2008, 17:06
Thats great news. I know there were a lot of people wanting an update on the vBulletin 4 progress.

Glad to see its moving along, and can't wait to see the URL rewritting ability natively supported along with the other changes. It should be great

shofolofo
15 Dec 2008, 18:37
Just awesome , hope that vbSEO doesn't do something to screw up .. like making their product cheaper
:p

tfw2005
15 Dec 2008, 19:51
Everything listed there is something heavily wanted. Bring it! :)

Netunt
15 Dec 2008, 20:26
A fresh design and layout making use of semantic markup and CSS styling

Thats why /me http://i.scribd.com/profiles/images/fu6u98w3yh9qr-tiny.jpg's vBulletin. We've been waiting for this.

Wordplay
15 Dec 2008, 20:59
i just hope this doesn't compromise the updates and mods for vb 3.8.

Coders Shack
15 Dec 2008, 21:55
i just hope this doesn't compromise the updates and mods for vb 3.8.
don't worry it will... They will be changing how everything works on a technical level. All the mods will have to be overhauled to work with 4.0 I'm guessing. But from what i can see it will be a much better dev environment. MVC and all :)

I can't wait till vb4 is out...

pein87
15 Dec 2008, 21:59
I hope it is a revolution towards a better forum. Not to say 3.7 wasnt good but its time vbulletin racked in more customers with a CMS coming for this new version and SEO aswell you cn bet that vbSEo will be out of the market once everyone moves towards 4. Also with this new host of features 4 will be just what we`ve been waiting for hope they move away from the community bit and work on great software all around.

Coders Shack
15 Dec 2008, 22:03
I hope it is a revolution towards a better forum. Not to say 3.7 wasnt good but its time vbulletin racked in more customers with a CMS coming for this new version and SEO aswell you cn bet that vbSEo will be out of the market once everyone moves towards 4. Also with this new host of features 4 will be just what we`ve been waiting for hope they move away from the community bit and work on great software all around.
i dunno if it will destroy vbseo... A lot of SEO is "guess work", so all VBSEO has to do is make up a bunch of additional methods. lol. I know a few "SEO Consultants".

pein87
15 Dec 2008, 22:33
I see in any case it wont for those members who dont own there software but I plan to make the change to 4 when its up and ready to bad it will be a beta. I hope there CMS isnt crappy like vbportal or vba cmpsor the vbcms already out.

edytwinky
15 Dec 2008, 22:53
What exactly is SEO or VBSEO, i've been reading the discussions on vbulletin.com and there's so much talk about vbSEO

Infopro
15 Dec 2008, 23:31
What exactly is SEO or VBSEO, i've been reading the discussions on vbulletin.com and there's so much talk about vbSEO

Interestingly enough, it helps forums to be more searchable/search engine friendly. Why not google the name and see what pops up? ;)

SgtTechHead
16 Dec 2008, 00:49
I'll be very interested in seeing the CMS features/model. Wonder if pricing on it will be similar to the blog and project tools.

Medtech
16 Dec 2008, 01:34
Sign me up for a pre release Beta test!!! :D

ExTincTi0N
16 Dec 2008, 01:55
I can't wait for this new version of vB. What does the Q2 stand for? its located in front of the 2009 lol.

Yes Im dumb

Swampfox
16 Dec 2008, 02:03
2nd Quarter, so April-June

Digital Jedi
16 Dec 2008, 02:26
Well, so much for "vB developing a CMS will mean the end of support/development/quality cause they don't have time to do all that extra stuff".

ExTincTi0N
16 Dec 2008, 02:36
Thanks for explaining that to me swampfox.

smacklan
16 Dec 2008, 02:42
2nd Quarter, so April-June
I'd be surprised to see it before August...Jelsoft is notorious for underestimating timeframes.

gamerfu
16 Dec 2008, 04:18
I have read the whole announcement discussion at ground zero and it doesn't look pretty.

RedeemedWarrior
16 Dec 2008, 05:38
awesome stuff

shlomot
16 Dec 2008, 06:12
We love your dedication and strive for excellence, and grew to trust build upon it.

Keep your great job and count me as an early-stage tester.

Lizard King
16 Dec 2008, 08:57
I can understand that people on vb.com can miss the most important factor regarding the announcement but it si really interesting to see that noone even at vb.org cares about this.

vBulletin 4.0 will not be a rewrite of the whole system. It has just some improvements but the core will not be updated. Most important factor for me is not complete. I am highly dissapointed with the annoucement.

gamerfu
16 Dec 2008, 09:32
I can understand that people on vb.com can miss the most important factor regarding the announcement but it si really interesting to see that noone even at vb.org cares about this.

vBulletin 4.0 will not be a rewrite of the whole system. It has just some improvements but the core will not be updated. Most important factor for me is not complete. I am highly dissapointed with the annoucement.If I think Lizard King is refering to this post... :confused: vBulletin 4.0 does not represent a significant break from the vBulletin 3.8 code.
Link: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1664689&postcount=125

Wayne Luke
16 Dec 2008, 13:33
vBulletin 4.0 will not be a rewrite of the whole system. It has just some improvements but the core will not be updated. Most important factor for me is not complete. I am highly dissapointed with the annoucement.

That isn't what the announcement says at all. The core of vBulletin 4.0 will be rewritten but it will be refactored in steps instead of in one interation. What will be released in the Spring will have several core pieces of the backend refactored. Much of the backend is already in an an object oriented approach.

The plus side of this is that Addon Authors can progress their products at the same time and more of the current addons will continue to work after the release. Though its doubtful any style modifications or styles will continue to work.

alive.se
16 Dec 2008, 13:35
We will go for the new 4.0 to our new website launch in Q2 2009, hopefully there wonīt be that much bugs by then as you guys think that it will be :)

We hold our finger crossed for a better application in order to what we have seen in the VBseo addon.

aggiefan
16 Dec 2008, 14:20
sounds like alot of good changes..... i really do hope multiple forums sharing a single userbase is finally supported natively. i still have yet to find something that works well enough for me to use.

very excited to see a cms coming though.... the front ends have always lacked imo.

tunistunis
16 Dec 2008, 14:41
Thanks you for new version

nexialys
16 Dec 2008, 16:16
see, i knew it.. they wait until my license is at end before releasing it.. i will have to renew if i want to see 4.0beta

smacklan
16 Dec 2008, 17:28
Though its doubtful any style modifications or styles will continue to work.
Visuals are arguably an equal or perhaps greater component to the popularity of vBulletin than mods. I hope us style producers get some consideration and advance help in this arena and not thrown under the bus, so to speak...we have long memories ;)

Wayne Luke
16 Dec 2008, 17:52
Visuals are arguably an equal or perhaps greater component to the popularity of vBulletin than mods. I hope us style producers get some consideration and advance help in this arena and not thrown under the bus, so to speak...we have long memories ;)
Arguably, with a semantic layout, you would have more control and an easier way of applying style to a vBulletin page than you do now.

abroad
16 Dec 2008, 19:22
So I can't use my current style anymore in 4.0? Was also wondering, if I am using vbadvanced, will those modules also be available within the new CMS?

gamerfu
16 Dec 2008, 20:35
see, i knew it.. they wait until my license is at end before releasing it.. i will have to renew if i want to see 4.0betaI am glad they are only targeting you nexialys. ;)

*goes to pay for renewal fee* :)

Wayne Luke
16 Dec 2008, 20:44
So I can't use my current style anymore in 4.0?
Doubtful.
Was also wondering, if I am using vbadvanced, will those modules also be available within the new CMS?

In the vBulletin CMS? Doubtful. It doesn't have anything to do with vBAdvanced.

Paul M
16 Dec 2008, 23:31
Maybe he meant modules that provide similar functions ?

scottct1
17 Dec 2008, 00:07
So far from the sounds of it this upgrade should be called vBulletin 3.9 not 4.0.

I am kind of disappointed with the announcement.

punchbowl
17 Dec 2008, 00:51
I'm worried it's becoming a jack of all trades, master of none. It was the best forum software about a year ago. I'm not so sure now. Hopefully search will improve from being the total embarrassment it is now.

I could do without cms/seo totally - I've seen vb's take on blogs so I dread to think what they think is a good cms. If the seo cuts down on stupid duplicate content then great - friendly urls don't bother me or google. Hopefully the improved templating system will make it easier to use the vb engine without their shitty bodywork.

Bradley_Wint
17 Dec 2008, 01:02
SEO...finally. Im too broke to afford vbSEO :P

smacklan
17 Dec 2008, 01:57
Arguably, with a semantic layout, you would have more control and an easier way of applying style to a vBulletin page than you do now.
My point is the attitude (apparently mind you) that we bring nothing to the table and have no reason to expect to be participants in development is a major concern.

Digital Jedi
17 Dec 2008, 06:10
My point is the attitude (apparently mind you) that we bring nothing to the table and have no reason to expect to be participants in development is a major concern.
At some point, "participation" begins to blur the line between that and "developer". They've taken our requests into consideration, that's why a lot of the desired features are being added. But we can only be so involved before our "participation" becomes counterproductive.

M-Tuning
17 Dec 2008, 07:51
I hope it will be easy to convert the style's..

smacklan
17 Dec 2008, 11:49
At some point, "participation" begins to blur the line between that and "developer". They've taken our requests into consideration, that's why a lot of the desired features are being added. But we can only be so involved before our "participation" becomes counterproductive.
I think having a program with select design alpha/beta testers makes good business sense. Those of us who produce designs for a living and focus on that aspect of vBulletin have a unique insight into the needs of the vB end user and market trends that vB won't have. Strengthening this relationship can only benefit each party while inaction does nothing but damage the skin producers.

nexialys
17 Dec 2008, 12:08
I hope it will be easy to convert the style's..

simple answer: nope.. prepare yourself right now, ask your designer to transform your style to be simplier based on CSS... and you will have ease of transfer then.

styles with millions of tables is so obsolete anyway, if you have a complex design, it's not only because of vB 4.0 that you have to redesign, but because of the web itself.

pein87
17 Dec 2008, 15:24
My suggestion for vbulletin with this new release is to create a simple program since there already adding a cms why not make it easier for designers to design a skin. I was thinking about creating a mod that has pre-instlled xml style files with there images with an enhanced style control panel to make adding or making your own styles easier. Php has its own build in image abilities why not create a program that can be used soley for the purpose of creating skins? If the cms is as bad as advanced or vbportal is then that will be a let down i expect much more from the forum software leaders then crappy coding. No offence to there coders at all but why code something that looks almot just like your forum? My advice to vbulletin is to create a seperate style system for the cms no on wonts a borad the looks just like there main site and if they add a feature to add a new banner per page then that my friends would be awesome. Just some food for thought and i hope they keep the coders/designers bette informed f the code chages so we can get our mods ported to 4.0 faster and smoother then we can now.

Jafo232
17 Dec 2008, 16:13
My two cents:

Give us better templating. A file based option would seriously speed up development on my end. I am open to any suggestions though.

Expand on the albums. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING that can put photopost in the grave would make me happy. It has become one of my biggest foes lately.

And thank god for the SEO! Not that VBSEO has been a nightmare, they are actually quite good at what they do, it is just another step when it comes time to upgrade. How nice it would be to eliminate that, especially when your someone like me who is usually tasked with upgrading about 20 different forums.

Integration API. Would be nice if there was something in place to make integrations with other software easier.

A CMS product. I know this is separate from VB, but I bet if you counted heads, there are more people trying to use some sort of CMS than VBSEO. It is an untapped market, and could be served well by Jelsoft.

Looking forward to 4.0!

nexialys
17 Dec 2008, 16:19
suggestions are useless people, don't you understand that you're in the bad place for that?!

you can be happy or sad, but it's pointless to whinne or suggest anything to be added... the roadmap is written, and they are always answering clients requests -- the ones made on the official forum for ages...

Digital Jedi
17 Dec 2008, 16:54
That where I think you hugely mistaken, nexialys. Roughly 90% of the features that have been added to vBulletin over the years has been from customer feedback. What you guys have been suggesting is in depth conversations with vBulletin, which even I don't think is a good idea. But just because they don't make the customer a "backseat developer" doesn't mean they aren't listening to suggestions being made. That's a huge misconception. They're listening. Just not in the way you'd like.

Lynne
17 Dec 2008, 17:07
suggestions are useless people, don't you understand that you're in the bad place for that?!

you can be happy or sad, but it's pointless to whinne or suggest anything to be added... the roadmap is written, and they are always answering clients requests -- the ones made on the official forum for ages...
As Nexia said, this is the wrong place for suggestions. It's been said several times that the developers do not come over here and therefore they won't see any suggestions posted here. There is a suggestion forum over at vb.com

Wayne Luke
17 Dec 2008, 17:30
A CMS product. I know this is separate from VB, but I bet if you counted heads, there are more people trying to use some sort of CMS than VBSEO. It is an untapped market, and could be served well by Jelsoft.

Did you actually read the announcement?

Alongside significant strides forward within the vBulletin forum product, we are also producing a new content management system to facilitate the creation, editing and publishing of non-forum pages. Further details about CMS features, and how it will integrate with vBulletin will be posted in due course.

--------------- Added 17 Dec 2008 at 10:31 ---------------

That where I think you hugely mistaken, nexialys. Roughly 90% of the features that have been added to vBulletin over the years has been from customer feedback. What you guys have been suggesting is in depth conversations with vBulletin, which even I don't think is a good idea. But just because they don't make the customer a "backseat developer" doesn't mean they aren't listening to suggestions being made. That's a huge misconception. They're listening. Just not in the way you'd like.

Yes, but you need to make suggestions at www.vbulletin.com (http://www.vbulletin.com). Developers rarely if ever visit vb.org.

<<and I really hate this auto-merge thing... just to let you know.>>

nexialys
17 Dec 2008, 18:48
<<and I really hate this auto-merge thing... just to let you know.>>

actually, i have a version of auto-merge that give a checkbox to usergroupsid that let them choose to auto-merge or not...

(sadly, nobody wants me to rebuild this site.. lol)

waza
17 Dec 2008, 18:56
Well, this sucks, I was really into the total rewrite.

nexialys
17 Dec 2008, 19:07
Well, this sucks, I was really into the total rewrite.

i can do it for you if you wish... complete rewrite of vB is not complicated... give me 5 minutes and everything will be messed out and uncontrolable... :)

Digital Jedi
17 Dec 2008, 19:28
Yes, but you need to make suggestions at www.vbulletin.com (http://www.vbulletin.com). Developers rarely if ever visit vb.org.
True, I was merely addressing the insinuation that the developers don't listen at all.

Well, this sucks, I was really into the total rewrite.
They said it would be new backend code, just over the course of the 4.0 series, not all at once.

smacklan
17 Dec 2008, 20:32
Keir isn't Project Manager at Jelsoft any longer...some new guy at IB is and is heading this up...lovely turn of events that don't paint a rosy picture no matter how much of a fanboy/fangirl you are of vB.

Lizard King
17 Dec 2008, 21:32
That is very sad news. As i posted at vb.com i definately will start checking other solutions more as i dont trust IB guys abilities on building a software like vB. When i think about the major events after Ib take over Jelsoft , I can't even find one single good point. So i believe the best option is to find a better solution.

nexialys
18 Dec 2008, 00:19
/me raise hand... HEY LIZ, I'M HERE !!!

Shazz
18 Dec 2008, 01:25
The first step in SEO for Jelsoft lol

Shelley_c
18 Dec 2008, 02:15
Great stuff jelsoft finally implementing seo. I won't have to purchase vbseo. Boy, was i the smart one holding off all these years :rolleyes:

domainmagick
05 Jan 2009, 01:08
all these improvements sound great - im excited to be started a couple new forums as these changes are being implemented... thanks Jsoft!

theringlord
13 Jan 2009, 20:43
I understand the AllAlbums add in will be part of 4.0. This is good news. There is however one VERY LARGE hole in this feature that I think a lot of us would like to see fixed. The pics that are posted in a thread NEED to be the same pic that is in an album. Otherwise the albums are useless. People upload pics to show their stuff in a thread. If they can't show the pic in a thread and only in an album the album is useless.

So someone goes to make a post and wants a pic in the thread. That pic should go into the post AND be in their album. In a perfect world that pic would also have a category selected from a list. Then the pic can be viewed in the post, in the album for that user and in an album of the name listed from the pull down category. The pic is stores once and a database reference in 3 spots---- sounds easy to me.

Pretty please - cream and sugar on top!!!

Digital Jedi
14 Jan 2009, 00:08
I understand the AllAlbums add in will be part of 4.0. This is good news. There is however one VERY LARGE hole in this feature that I think a lot of us would like to see fixed. The pics that are posted in a thread NEED to be the same pic that is in an album. Otherwise the albums are useless. People upload pics to show their stuff in a thread. If they can't show the pic in a thread and only in an album the album is useless.

So someone goes to make a post and wants a pic in the thread. That pic should go into the post AND be in their album. In a perfect world that pic would also have a category selected from a list. Then the pic can be viewed in the post, in the album for that user and in an album of the name listed from the pull down category. The pic is stores once and a database reference in 3 spots---- sounds easy to me.

Pretty please - cream and sugar on top!!!
Are you suggesting attachments also going into the user's albums upon upload? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't attachments and albums stored seperatly?

Rene Kriest
14 Jan 2009, 02:13
I understand the AllAlbums add in will be part of 4.0. This is good news. There is however one VERY LARGE hole in this feature that I think a lot of us would like to see fixed. The pics that are posted in a thread NEED to be the same pic that is in an album. Otherwise the albums are useless. People upload pics to show their stuff in a thread. If they can't show the pic in a thread and only in an album the album is useless.

So someone goes to make a post and wants a pic in the thread. That pic should go into the post AND be in their album. In a perfect world that pic would also have a category selected from a list. Then the pic can be viewed in the post, in the album for that user and in an album of the name listed from the pull down category. The pic is stores once and a database reference in 3 spots---- sounds easy to me.

Pretty please - cream and sugar on top!!!
100% agree on that one.

Waste of server space

Also consider this example: in times of SQL there is no need to waste server space by uploading the same thing twice if not really necessary. 10 times a 5mb picture produces some sweet 50mb overload - and server space is expensive.

I think that vb is fighting irish with its legacy - the will to be a tool for geeks 1st. ;)

--------------- Added 1231902953 at 1231902953 ---------------

Are you suggesting attachments also going into the user's albums upon upload? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't attachments and albums stored seperatly?
As far as pictures are concerned his point is valid.

As long as there is no real media library like in Wordpress I would handle mp3s etc. different.

--------------- Added 1231903368 at 1231903368 ---------------

Great stuff jelsoft finally implementing seo. I won't have to purchase vbseo. Boy, was i the smart one holding off all these years :rolleyes:
Well, I doubt that vb is going to put in the elaborated SEO stuff vbSEO features so far. Usually by vb implemented features which are available for years via addons are only basic features in comparison to its competitor.

Maybe vb got the edge over vbSEO because they develop the main code, but if you really stick to Google's SEO guide which take basic things into account you have to change more than only enabling mod_rewrite.

I am excited what the new SEO features will look like.

Mr. Hoddz
19 Jan 2009, 23:03
From 3.6 to 3.7 to 3.8 in such a short time... and they have been working on 4.0. Why?! Why not stick with 3.6 and then just go straight to 4.0 but that's besides the point!

Anyway... I hope that when they bring this 4.0 in they allow you to just keep Members, Forums and Posts... nothing else. I don't want to import all the other settings... just the Members, Forums and Posts.
If not I can see myself getting a little frustrated but I'm sure it will all be well worth it. I'm looking forward to seeing the new "look" that 4.0 will have... hopefully more "web2.0" than vB3 series.

I'm glad I renewed my licence so I can get 4.0, and hopefully from the first (beta) release (early Q2 209 I hope) until the first (stable) release I hope that is only a maximum of two months. I think alot of people will be on board testing and submitting bug reports so that should speed things up I would expect.

Thanks Jelsoft... you reign supreme yet again!

theringlord
21 Jan 2009, 00:48
Are you suggesting attachments also going into the user's albums upon upload? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't attachments and albums stored seperatly?


We don't really get uploads other than pics - but now that you bring it up... yeah I think that would work just fine - store it all in the abums.

Shaliza
21 Jan 2009, 10:06
I wonder what the CMS is going to look like. I already have vB integrated with Wordpress. Considering the amount of content it's going to have [which is loads] by the time 4.0 is released, I'm wondering if it'll be worth switching over to, depending on what the vB CMS looks like & how it functions.

I'm not too worried about styles. I hope someone will convert the Retro Blue & Wild West styles though.

mac-warez
21 Jan 2009, 23:29
All i know is that we took a style we found and totally re customized it to fit our forums. Mainly made it look more macish. The 4.0 upgrade is gonna be a tough one. It will require alot of work on our ends and alot of our custom mods won't work.

Shaliza
22 Jan 2009, 00:26
Maybe you shouldn't upgrade. There are other boards that have been customized to the point where if they upgraded, it would just screw everything up.

Edit: question for creators about styling: since CSS will be involved, does this mean we won't need hacks that allow us to make profiles look more like Facebook/Myspace?

Digital Jedi
22 Jan 2009, 13:27
Maybe you shouldn't upgrade. There are other boards that have been customized to the point where if they upgraded, it would just screw everything up.
Heavily modified boards just means that you have to do a lot more preparation for an upgrade.

Edit: question for creators about styling: since CSS will be involved, does this mean we won't need hacks that allow us to make profiles look more like Facebook/Myspace?
All CSS will do is change the way the HTML is displayed. It's just more efficient. The only thing it will change is the way styles are designed on the backend.

Vaupell
22 Jan 2009, 14:12
man im so excited, i just cant hide it.. ... :D

wonder if they will make that vb cms finally, thats long over due..

i was thinking not to continue my vb subscription.. but hmm might just continue anyway.
with the news of the major changes in vb4

Shaliza
23 Jan 2009, 11:42
Interesting. I work well with CSS, so I'll be looking forward to this.

WreckRman2
23 Jan 2009, 22:05
Are you suggesting attachments also going into the user's albums upon upload? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't attachments and albums stored seperatly?

I think that would be awesome if user attachments were simply placed into the users albums.

The problem I see to have is people upload them into both the posts and into their albums.

RvG2
24 Jan 2009, 02:52
I think that would be awesome if user attachments were simply placed into the users albums.

The problem I see to have is people upload them into both the posts and into their albums.

Indeed... a centralized storage of attachments/albums into users account.

Alfa1
24 Jan 2009, 02:57
Check out the recent developers blog on this topic. You will like it. ;)

the stig
28 Jan 2009, 01:50
Now, I got a quick question.

Will the new seo enabled in the vb will be better than the vbseo?

cedivad
15 Feb 2009, 21:03
Now, I got a quick question.

Will the new seo enabled in the vb will be better than the vbseo?
Like the seo mod (i'm talking only about rewrite) is right now it will be very bad, but i'm sure they will incrase it :)

freewilley
17 Feb 2009, 08:41
when is it expected to release? any idea? I am so excited to see the vB 4.0 ...

Marco van Herwaarden
17 Feb 2009, 09:17
See: http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1685846&postcount=1

Magnumutz
17 Feb 2009, 12:27
That means March or April.

nexialys
17 Feb 2009, 12:32
i would bet april 1st...

Jasem
02 Mar 2009, 23:50
thank you very much!

1Unreal
03 Mar 2009, 18:41
Does semantic markup mean no more tables?

BSMedia
04 Mar 2009, 16:35
http://www.digital-web.com/articles/writing_semantic_markup/

The_____KinG
20 Apr 2009, 07:40
am really excited about SEO changes and Url friendly thing.

Cant wait anymore....

Any deadline guys ?

Marco van Herwaarden
20 Apr 2009, 09:05
If any dates are known, they will be announced on vB.com.

cheat-master30
20 Apr 2009, 10:19
Am I the only one, going from 'last post' who thought that Marco's post would be an addition to the announcement that had just been said in the three minutes since I last checked this topic? Damn, I was expecting some kind of news update by the staff username on last post...

smooth-c
20 Apr 2009, 13:40
They're allowed to post as normal members aswell you know?

cheat-master30
20 Apr 2009, 22:50
I know, just been spending too long at vBulletin.com where the staff either post completely for announcements or 'you are not licensed please fill out this form'.

gamerfu
21 Apr 2009, 03:22
The VB4 thread i read frequently, and I have yet to see anything constructive.

napy8gen
21 Apr 2009, 04:46
Does semantic markup mean no more tables?

yes I supposed.
the vb4 team have to keep up and maybe more advance from the phpbb3 standard.

RedeemedWarrior
21 Apr 2009, 08:53
phpbb3 style is vile ;) I'd sooner go back to 3.6 than go to v4 if it anything like the look and feel of phpbb3

cheat-master30
21 Apr 2009, 12:43
Definitely means no more tables, if this blog entry is to be trusted:

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog.php?b=2352

(vBulletin 4).

Wayne Luke
21 Apr 2009, 15:14
phpbb3 style is vile ;) I'd sooner go back to 3.6 than go to v4 if it anything like the look and feel of phpbb3

It isn't.

vB4's style is very elegant in how its put together and the underlying code is very streamlined. I find the overall style easier to use and anyone who knows CSS will find it a lot easier to customize. In fact, I would say 90% of customers won't even have to edit templates after its released. It does have some new gadgets and gizmos but they are well implemented and should be easy to change as well.

Well that's your tidbit from me today. I'd post screenshots but then I'd either have to send ninjas after you or lose my job so umm... not going to do it. I will add that overall, the thing I am looking forward to the most is the new style and style system. The capabilities presented through CSS alone are great.

--------------- Added 21 Apr 2009 at 08:14 ---------------

Definitely means no more tables, if this blog entry is to be trusted

Hope you like Unordered Lists though.

KevinL
21 Apr 2009, 16:29
It isn't.

vB4's style is very elegant in how its put together and the underlying code is very streamlined. I find the overall style easier to use and anyone who knows CSS will find it a lot easier to customize. In fact, I would say 90% of customers won't even have to edit templates after its released. It does have some new gadgets and gizmos but they are well implemented and should be easy to change as well.

Well that's your tidbit from me today. I'd post screenshots but then I'd either have to send ninjas after you or lose my job so umm... not going to do it. I will add that overall, the thing I am looking forward to the most is the new style and style system. The capabilities presented through CSS alone are great.

--------------- Added 21 Apr 2009 at 08:14 ---------------



Hope you like Unordered Lists though.


I like the sound of that :) Plus I read ninjas...which is always good! :D

defi
22 Apr 2009, 17:54
So, spring is rapidly approaching an end and I've yet to see any dates.

kpmedia
23 Apr 2009, 07:53
This sounds very nice. :)

Wayne Luke
23 Apr 2009, 16:18
So, spring is rapidly approaching an end and I've yet to see any dates.

You won't see an exact date until right before its released sorry. Target for beta release is June at this time.

-------------
First Look: The vBulletin 4.0 Style (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog.php?b=2360)

defi
23 Apr 2009, 22:21
You won't see an exact date until right before its released sorry. Target for beta release is June at this time.

-------------
First Look: The vBulletin 4.0 Style (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog.php?b=2360)
I should have figured as much from past development experiences... :cool:

At least I have a rough month frame... thanks, Wayne.

freewilley
24 Apr 2009, 05:07
just seen this update on vbulletin.com

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog.php?b=2360

it seems really interesting I hope the first BETA release not gonna take very long.. :)

Features of vb4 also seems very interesting...

regards

M Shaker
24 Apr 2009, 06:00
Awesome

Dekard
29 Apr 2009, 19:32
June is the targeted release date right now. It looks like we'll have to wait until then. /sigh

j883376
29 Apr 2009, 23:46
just seen this update on vbulletin.com

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog.php?b=2360

it seems really interesting I hope the first BETA release not gonna take very long.. :)

Features of vb4 also seems very interesting...

regards

Are these mockups? Or live forum screenshots?

freewilley
30 Apr 2009, 01:30
those are not mockups

1Unreal
30 Apr 2009, 02:32
June is the targeted release date right now. It looks like we'll have to wait until then. /sigh

Its only like a month. Not that long

Wayne Luke
30 Apr 2009, 05:43
those are not mockups

While not completely mockups, it isn't an existing style as of yet either. TO clarify, the code exists but hasn't been broken up into individual templates and had variables inserted yet.

Wayne Luke
01 May 2009, 16:56
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog.php?b=2362

This one is more technical and would impact designers and plugin authors the most.

lordtopcat
01 May 2009, 20:32
vBulletin 4 will be released to members when it is ready. I know, we are all anxious to jump in and see it but the last thing I want to do is continuously bug the developers and have them deliver a semi decent product. We want the best and will only get the best when they feel it's ready to be released.

Note that they have also stated that June is the targeted date. It doesn't mean it will be released by then, so when June 1st comes don't pack a paddy if it isn't ready.

edytwinky
05 May 2009, 21:03
Looks very very cool. I cannot wait

mattltm
07 May 2009, 06:33
The new style and the code looks very nice.

I can see this allowing lots of "novice" users to get their hands dirty with a bit of template design.

Well done VB team.

edytwinky
29 May 2009, 19:27
Look forward to June. If no beta comes out then, then I will look forward to the next month.

Either way, should be pretty cool when it comes out

TheLastSuperman
29 May 2009, 20:08
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog.php?b=2362

This one is more technical and would impact designers and plugin authors the most.

Some of that is going to make it a pain for coders and designers like you said but I know you and most of us more involved members can see the increased possibilities and are now brainstorming away :D.

Is there anything official on the pricing and updates/support yet? I have become enraged once or twice but those were rumors so I'm trying to refrain from a negative opinion this early on however we all know something is going on upstairs it would be nice to know more to prepare ourselves considering the current world economies and everyones wallets more importantly.

S-MAN

forum4
29 May 2009, 21:34
OK, so bear in mind this question comes from a newbie with not much experience or knowledge.

So, I don't have any mods other than the LivingAvatars, which is really a separate program with just an interface to the forum. So, I'm thinking the interface might need an update, but overall that shouldn't be affected. Thank goodness I didn't stock up on the mods.

I don't know about XHTML, but I know HTML and from the looks of the screenshots, they are similar. It more reminds me of my store code with the headers and such.

Now, I know some styles have the tables on the left. Will we still be able to add those? Also, will we still be able to add in our own HTML?

I'm ok with manually changing the default style to look like what I have now. It will be work, but the SEO is worth it.

Shamil.
30 May 2009, 00:51
OK, so bear in mind this question comes from a newbie with not much experience or knowledge.

So, I don't have any mods other than the LivingAvatars, which is really a separate program with just an interface to the forum. So, I'm thinking the interface might need an update, but overall that shouldn't be affected. Thank goodness I didn't stock up on the mods.

I don't know about XHTML, but I know HTML and from the looks of the screenshots, they are similar. It more reminds me of my store code with the headers and such.

Now, I know some styles have the tables on the left. Will we still be able to add those? Also, will we still be able to add in our own HTML?

I'm ok with manually changing the default style to look like what I have now. It will be work, but the SEO is worth it.

The new theme is meant to be as tableless as possible, and I think it has been sent to the Indian subcontractor.

You can add you own HTML.

forum4
30 May 2009, 02:51
The new theme is meant to be as tableless as possible, and I think it has been sent to the Indian subcontractor.

You can add you own HTML.

So does that mean we can't use them on the sides?

Digital Jedi
30 May 2009, 07:45
So does that mean we can't use them on the sides?
I don't see why not.

Ohiosweetheart
31 May 2009, 23:48
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog.php?b=2362

This one is more technical and would impact designers and plugin authors the most.ugh that's confusing.

Sp32
31 May 2009, 23:50
I really hope they aren't thinking of raising the price... let a lone raising the price by a lot I cant be bothered to convert all my vbulletin to phpbb everything goes wrong T_T

Digital Jedi
01 Jun 2009, 06:45
I doubt it. They've only raised their prices like, what, twice since they've been in business? I know they've only done it once in the three years I've been customer.

Brandon Sheley
01 Jun 2009, 06:52
I doubt it. They've only raised their prices like, what, twice since they've been in business? I know they've only done it once in the three years I've been customer.

I think we have have a good idea on if the prices will be raised or not, just google "vBulletin leaked" and you'll see some screenshots.
I personally think even if they do raise the prices, or start charging for version updates, I'll still pay the fee. I don't see myself leaving vBulletin for a while, I want to play with vBulletin 4.0 today :)

almohd
01 Jun 2009, 08:02
Thanks you

Sp32
01 Jun 2009, 22:16
I think we have have a good idea on if the prices will be raised or not, just google "vBulletin leaked" and you'll see some screenshots.
I personally think even if they do raise the prices, or start charging for version updates, I'll still pay the fee. I don't see myself leaving vBulletin for a while, I want to play with vBulletin 4.0 today :)

Wow! those screens are awesome! I like the idea of paying a one time fee for a license of the version!!

Very good idea imho, it will make a lot of people love vbulletin, even the people who would pay anything :)

respected

forum4
02 Jun 2009, 06:23
Yeah, free upgrades till the company gets bought out again. So, how does it work with someone like me that paid $180 a couple months ago? I'll now have to pay another $195 just to get vB4, and if I don't, there's no more support or updates?

Yeah, a one time fee for the version you purchase, but more fees everytime they upgrade. They'll probably come out with a new version once a year anyways.

freewilley
02 Jun 2009, 11:21
wow nice screenshots... I like vbulletin older versions better personally.. both in vbulletin and IPB I dont know why would both went on for a new look that doesn't really look good. I dont mind the rising price as I wont be upgrading my license for the newer version.

RedeemedWarrior
02 Jun 2009, 11:40
wow nice screenshots... I like vbulletin older versions better personally.. both in vbulletin and IPB I dont know why would both went on for a new look that doesn't really look good. I dont mind the rising price as I wont be upgrading my license for the newer version.
ditto, i severely dislike the new look, same for ipb's and phpbb's default new looks

metalguy639
02 Jun 2009, 11:49
Visuals are arguably an equal or perhaps greater component to the popularity of vBulletin than mods. I hope us style producers get some consideration and advance help in this arena and not thrown under the bus, so to speak...we have long memories ;)

No please no throwing under the bus......It will still be html & css I gathering so it will not be drastically different it just maybe set up differently and allow for different layouts.

Wayne Luke
02 Jun 2009, 15:22
So does that mean we can't use them on the sides?

Should be easier to add left and right columns if you want. They probably won't be tables though. More like layers floated to the appropriate location. Sounds confusing but in the long run it will be easier.

Paul M
10 Jun 2009, 20:19
A bit more news today ;

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=310465

HMBeaty
10 Jun 2009, 21:16
Awesome. Thank you Paul

silvermerc
11 Jun 2009, 06:44
is it going to cost money to upgrade to 4.0 then :s

Shamil.
11 Jun 2009, 11:05
is it going to cost money to upgrade to 4.0 then :s

Ray said that there'll be discounts.

silvermerc
11 Jun 2009, 16:16
We shoulnt have to pay if we have a owned license, that's ludicris.

Digital Jedi
11 Jun 2009, 23:41
I think the plan is they'll make you pay more for an owned license, but your license will be permanent until the next major version.

puertoblack2003
12 Jun 2009, 02:51
hmmm, i think I'm going to stick with 3.8 version. It's not worth paying extra money for a face lift..:eek:

chuckhodson
12 Jun 2009, 05:07
Everything else is going up what did you expect, I will always own vb no matter the cost. You want the best then you pay for the best. .. .

COBRAws
12 Jun 2009, 06:57
I still cant understand why I should pay for something I paid a few months ago that said:

Owned License Renewal
Purchasing this will renew your owned license. Doing so will extend your members' area access for 1 year, allowing you to download the latest versions of vBulletin.


Its like those contracts that say "we can change this contract in any way without letting you know".

It's not fair.

forum4
12 Jun 2009, 08:43
Well, I hope there are discounts anyways. It's silly to pay $180 and then a couple months later be asked to cough up another $190. If that's the case, I'd just wait till version 5 :D

I really want the SEO, but I like my money to.

Might end up being a little patient anyways and wait for the designers to catch up and the bugs to get worked out.

cad2go
12 Jun 2009, 11:22
I'll be ditching the blogs and sticking on 3.8 until I have to pick between vb5 and whatever will inevitably springs up elsewhere.

Digital Jedi
12 Jun 2009, 12:53
I still cant understand why I should pay for something I paid a few months ago that said:




Its like those contracts that say "we can change this contract in any way without letting you know".

It's not fair.
If it isn't fair, then why agree to the contact in the first place?

What I don't get is what do people think their missing out on? Software has to move forward, it can't remain stagnant. If you want to stay on 3.8, you can. But that doesn't mean they have to continue to support 3.8 indefinitely. And moving forward means change. I'm really surprised, but it seems that the generation of coders and forum admin are just as resistant to change as our ancestors were when introduced to the mail service, or when our parent's were introduced to email. If we want vB to keep up with technology, then we're going to have to make some sacrifices here and there.

KevinL
12 Jun 2009, 14:33
If it isn't fair, then why agree to the contact in the first place?

What I don't get is what do people think their missing out on? Software has to move forward, it can't remain stagnant. If you want to stay on 3.8, you can. But that doesn't mean they have to continue to support 3.8 indefinitely. And moving forward means change. I'm really surprised, but it seems that the generation of coders and forum admin are just as resistant to change as our ancestors were when introduced to the mail service, or when our parent's were introduced to email. If we want vB to keep up with technology, then we're going to have to make some sacrifices here and there.

That would be way to easy :rolleyes:

:D

Sugoi na
12 Jun 2009, 14:51
Sorry but I just purchased 2 licenses no more than 2 months ago... If anyone should have a discount it's the poor saps like me who will end up paying $180x4 in under a 3-4 month span...

Maybe if I had my licenses for 2 years & the economy wasn't shot the way it is, then sure.. They need the cash. I will gladly assist but... for simply a face lift? It's not worth the price. I will be sitting this one out =/

forum4
12 Jun 2009, 16:59
Well, if they have a new version come out once or every other year, You'll be paying a lot more than you are now. Plus, at $40 a year, it's $10 less than 5 years worth of updates. Do we think version 4 will be around for 3 years let alone 5? That's what I'd be interested in. You know, how expensive will this really get for admins that want to keep their boards constantly updated?

I mean if there is already talk about a version 5, which I know I read somewhere.

tlwwolfseye
12 Jun 2009, 17:39
I agree. You canīt ask people that still do have their 1 year License running, where they paid for already, to buy it again within the time it was supposed to be included in the money they bought vB for. If its Version 4, 5 or 6, it doesnīt matter. When you buy a License for vB it doesnīt say that major Version Updates will cost extra. So you cant ask what you didnīt put into the contract in the first place.

If vBcms would have asked me to pay again when they switched from Version 1.x to 2.x, within the time I bought the license for, I would not have stayed with them. But they didnīt. So i suggest if you donīt want to loose a lot customers on the long run you give the Update to Version 4.x for free when a license is still valid. Except of course vB is like Valve, which means that they also can change what they want, when they want and you have to agree. But they at least pointed that out in their EULA from the start. No after suprise.

Just my 2 cent.

Digital Jedi
12 Jun 2009, 18:42
Sorry but I just purchased 2 licenses no more than 2 months ago... If anyone should have a discount it's the poor saps like me who will end up paying $180x4 in under a 3-4 month span...

Maybe if I had my licenses for 2 years & the economy wasn't shot the way it is, then sure.. They need the cash. I will gladly assist but... for simply a face lift? It's not worth the price. I will be sitting this one out =/
Yes, but, who's making you pay $180x4 in 3 month span? Your trying to maintain your old behaviors in a system that is fundamentally changing.

I agree. You canīt ask people that still do have their 1 year License running, where they paid for already, to buy it again within the time it was supposed to be included in the money they bought vB for. If its Version 4, 5 or 6, it doesnīt matter. When you buy a License for vB it doesnīt say that major Version Updates will cost extra. So you cant ask what you didnīt put into the contract in the first place.

If vBcms would have asked me to pay again when they switched from Version 1.x to 2.x, within the time I bought the license for, I would not have stayed with them. But they didnīt. So i suggest if you donīt want to loose a lot customers on the long run you give the Update to Version 4.x for free when a license is still valid. Except of course vB is like Valve, which means that they also can change what they want, when they want and you have to agree. But they at least pointed that out in their EULA from the start. No after suprise.

Just my 2 cent.
But you see, that's just the thing. You could be dealing with the most transparent and honorable service in history, and you would still be running the risk of a mid-shift policy change. This is why so many companies stagnate while upstarts move in under their noses. They worry so much about angering their base, that they fail to improve the quality of their product. vB is moving forward. It sucks, but ultimately, only sucks for a minority who got their licenses close to the new version (and we still haven't really heard what their going to do in those cases. I think we're jumping the gun here.) For the future of the product, sometimes you have to loose a few customers if your going to have any more or succeed as a business.

IdanB
12 Jun 2009, 19:04
personally i think (& hope) Jelsoft would allow us customers (specifically all of us who just purchased owned license in recent 2-3 months) to upgrade free of charge, or with some (VERY!) minor charge.

I myself have no plans to spend any big money in less than few months period again, it makes no sense to me to invest that much money in such short period since last purchase...

tlwwolfseye
12 Jun 2009, 19:07
All that doesnīt justifies that in my oppinion. If you have a rule like this in the EULA from the start, like VALVE for HL2, then even if its not nice, it at least is in there and people accepted that, no matter if they like it or not.

But in case of vB, its not in the EULA of this Software. And just to update it would be far less popular for customers. Loosing Customers for things like that wouldnīt really speak for the Company that makes the Product.

I am speaking also for myself. If I would have to rebuy a license while i still have a valid one, that would really p*** me off. I mean this would be like the purchase was a hokes, and if its suits just to change it to make more money. I still hope that this wonīt be the fact and will not happen. But, as much as I really come to love vB, I would not go to vB 4.x and would leave and do my luck with another Software, less perfect or not.

So lets just hope it doesnīt come to that, for all that would be concerned in that case. I really hope that vB will not do a step like this. Its the best Forum Software iīve ever had and I hate to see this happen.

Digital Jedi
12 Jun 2009, 23:38
All that doesnīt justifies that in my oppinion. If you have a rule like this in the EULA from the start, like VALVE for HL2, then even if its not nice, it at least is in there and people accepted that, no matter if they like it or not.

But in case of vB, its not in the EULA of this Software. And just to update it would be far less popular for customers. Loosing Customers for things like that wouldnīt really speak for the Company that makes the Product.

I am speaking also for myself. If I would have to rebuy a license while i still have a valid one, that would really p*** me off. I mean this would be like the purchase was a hokes, and if its suits just to change it to make more money. I still hope that this wonīt be the fact and will not happen. But, as much as I really come to love vB, I would not go to vB 4.x and would leave and do my luck with another Software, less perfect or not.

So lets just hope it doesnīt come to that, for all that would be concerned in that case. I really hope that vB will not do a step like this. Its the best Forum Software iīve ever had and I hate to see this happen.
But that's just what I'm saying, your still getting a product for what you paid for. It's not like their revoking your license, of forcing you to purchase anything. The only thing your theoretically missing out on, and again, I don't really recall them saying this specifically, but allegedly the only thing your missing out on is an upgrade. But your still going to have access to 3.8 and the support that goes with it.

Again, did I miss something? Did vB say all you late buyers weren't going to get any kind of concession, or is everyone just jumping to the worst case conclusion?

jambo_1969
14 Jun 2009, 07:24
I'm happy to pay the fee, but only if there are clear benefits to updating to verion 4.

ragtek
14 Jun 2009, 07:47
For me thats the normal way in the Business.
If you buy now Windows Vista and in some months MS release Windows 7, do you belive you'll get if for free?

tlwwolfseye
14 Jun 2009, 08:30
If you buy now Windows Vista and in some months MS release Windows 7, do you belive you'll get if for free?

Who would NOW by Vista, knowing WINDOWS7 is not far. And thats something different btw. ! Like i said, when vBCMS went from Version 1.x to 2.x we also didnt had to renew the License some of us just made 3 or 4 months before.

If I buy a Anti Virus now, lets say Version 8, and Version 9 will come out 6 months later, but I have a 1 year license, I also get the new Version since its in that time of my license. That is how it is.

Forcing people to buy vB4 again while they still have a valid vB3 License would be like not caring whats with the Customers and only thinking on the profit. Sorry if that sounds harsh but thats how it is. Lets hope it doesnīt come to this.

ragtek
14 Jun 2009, 08:48
For me thats the same. Who would buy NOW vb 3.8 knowing vb4 is not far:P Sorry but i don't see any difference....
Other example=> wbb2 & wbb3
there was also no free update

It's from company to company different.

Digital Jedi
14 Jun 2009, 17:01
Who would NOW by Vista, knowing WINDOWS7 is not far. And thats something different btw. ! Like i said, when vBCMS went from Version 1.x to 2.x we also didnt had to renew the License some of us just made 3 or 4 months before.

If I buy a Anti Virus now, lets say Version 8, and Version 9 will come out 6 months later, but I have a 1 year license, I also get the new Version since its in that time of my license. That is how it is.

Forcing people to buy vB4 again while they still have a valid vB3 License would be like not caring whats with the Customers and only thinking on the profit. Sorry if that sounds harsh but thats how it is. Lets hope it doesnīt come to this.
I'll ask this again, because everyone seems to be ignoring it. But where and when did vB say that late license purchasers were going to have to do that? Also, where is the "forcing" coming into this?

HMBeaty
14 Jun 2009, 18:04
Also, where is the "forcing" coming into this?
Ok, I like this statement right here. :up:

Who is forcing you to upgrade/buy vBulletin 4?

There isn't anything in any contract that says you have to upgrade to or purchase vBulletin 4. If it does, please fill me in on where you see that. :confused:

TheSupportForum
14 Jun 2009, 21:13
Ok, I like this statement right here. :up:

Who is forcing you to upgrade/buy vBulletin 4?

There isn't anything in any contract that says you have to upgrade to or purchase vBulletin 4. If it does, please fill me in on where you see that. :confused:



when is VB 4 available

and why are people saying you must purchase a new license for it ?
will there be an upgrade from V3 to V4 ?

HMBeaty
14 Jun 2009, 21:18
when is VB 4 available
If you look here (http://www.vbulletin.com/vbulletin4/), it says: "We are working hard and plan to have vBulletin 4.0 released in beta form by the end of Q2 2009"
and why are people saying you must purchase a new license for it?
Who?
will there be an upgrade from V3 to V4 ?
Yes. There's always an upgrade. Even from V2 to V3

Wayne Luke
15 Jun 2009, 05:00
I mean if there is already talk about a version 5, which I know I read somewhere.

Yeah... there is no talk of vBulletin 5. At least nothing worth repeating. There is too much work to be done on the vBulletin 4 series that would even preclude it.

silvermerc
15 Jun 2009, 11:37
i think its shambles that they are charging extra for vbulletin 4, we paid for a owned licence and we pay updates then to be given a hidden bill to upgrade to vb 4 is crap

RetroDreams
15 Jun 2009, 14:39
But that's just what I'm saying, your still getting a product for what you paid for. It's not like their revoking your license, of forcing you to purchase anything. The only thing your theoretically missing out on, and again, I don't really recall them saying this specifically, but allegedly the only thing your missing out on is an upgrade. But your still going to have access to 3.8 and the support that goes with it.

Again, did I miss something? Did vB say all you late buyers weren't going to get any kind of concession, or is everyone just jumping to the worst case conclusion?

I think what folks are arguing is this:

The owned vBulletin Forum license allows you to run the software on your site indefinitely. Along with this license, you will receive one year of free updates.

If vBulletin 4 comes out during that individual's year of free updates, there should be no charge, period. It is immaterial that it is going from v3 to v4, the terms of the agreement clearly state any updates during said period are free. Jelsoft really needs to ammend their EULA as well as update the website stating that it includes current version updates and if they move to a new version there may be a nominal fee. But they should honor anyone that purchased prior to the ammendment.

sparkster666
15 Jun 2009, 17:04
I just hope it comes out soon I want to play with it

HeyMe
16 Jun 2009, 10:42
If vBulletin 4 comes out during that individual's year of free updates, there should be no charge, period. It is immaterial that it is going from v3 to v4, the terms of the agreement clearly state any updates during said period are free. Jelsoft really needs to ammend their EULA as well as update the website stating that it includes current version updates and if they move to a new version there may be a nominal fee. But they should honor anyone that purchased prior to the ammendment.
I guess everyone who has a valid license (new or renewed) should get the updates free. We buy a license for 1 year of free upgrades & we renew it also for free upgrades.

BtW where is it stated that the upgrade to vB 4 will be a paid one?

maidos
16 Jun 2009, 14:23
I guess everyone who has a valid license (new or renewed) should get the updates free. We buy a license for 1 year of free upgrades & we renew it also for free upgrades.

BtW where is it stated that the upgrade to vB 4 will be a paid one?

ditto! if you seriously will charge i will sell vb license since you offer onw 1 free update and charge for vb4 will be ridiculous. ipb wil be cheaper and less money greedy

forum4
16 Jun 2009, 14:37
Well, and then if you pay the $190 for vB 4, you only get a year of updates without even an option to continue to get updates?

If that's the case, there's no benefit from vB 3 as if you paid the $180 you'd get the year of updates. If you didn't want anymore updates, you could still use the program.

With vB 4 you won't have to pay the $40 - $60 a year, but you won't get anymore updates either? If that is the case, they'll have to release new versions every year in order to continue to pull in revenue.

Wayne Luke
16 Jun 2009, 15:52
With vB 4 you won't have to pay the $40 - $60 a year, but you won't get anymore updates either? If that is the case, they'll have to release new versions every year in order to continue to pull in revenue.

Under the leaked information, if you have vBulletin 4, you will get updates for the version 4 series as long as they are created whether its 1 year, 2 years, 5 years. Doesn't matter. There would be no yearly upgrade fee for vBulletin 4. You would just get them.

When vBulletin 5 is released, there would be an upgrade fee and you would receive all upgrades for version 5.

When vBulletin 6 is released, another upgrade fee and you would receive all version 6 releases.

So instead of paying $60 per year, you would just pay one upfront fee. Upgrading shouldn't cost as much as purchasing a new license either. In fact, no where was that ever stated, even in the leaked information. The prices in that information are what were discussed for brand new licenses, not upgrades.

RetroDreams
16 Jun 2009, 17:02
Well, and then if you pay the $190 for vB 4, you only get a year of updates without even an option to continue to get updates?

If that's the case, there's no benefit from vB 3 as if you paid the $180 you'd get the year of updates. If you didn't want anymore updates, you could still use the program.

With vB 4 you won't have to pay the $40 - $60 a year, but you won't get anymore updates either? If that is the case, they'll have to release new versions every year in order to continue to pull in revenue.

We're missing two variables. How much the upgrades between major versions will cost and how often major versions will be released. Those two things can really swing the TCO either way. I have a feeling that since they're so hesitant to release pricing information, it is not a good sign for us forum owners.

Additionally, Internet Brands is a publicly traded company designed to profit. vBulletin is just another company in their portfolio so I'm also afraid that the interaction between staff and customer will never return to what it once was.

Wayne Luke
16 Jun 2009, 17:07
I have a feeling that since they're so hesitant to release pricing information, it is not a good sign for us forum owners. Or its not finalized. I don't even know what pricing is going to be. It wouldn't do anyone any good to make an announcement that says "We think prices will be like this and upgrades will be that, however we aren't quite sure yet."

RetroDreams
16 Jun 2009, 17:16
Or its not finalized. I don't even know what pricing is going to be. It wouldn't do anyone any good to make an announcement that says "We think prices will be like this and upgrades will be that, however we aren't quite sure yet."
100% finalized I can see. Rough idea at final pricing, not a chance in hell. Maybe I'm wrong... I guess we'll see.

Lynne
16 Jun 2009, 17:40
New blog out - vBulletin 4 - Style Variables (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog.php?b=2366)

tuaguild
16 Jun 2009, 18:22
it is unfortunate to see so much lack of faith on the vb user side of the scope

forum4
16 Jun 2009, 18:42
Well, it seems like vB 4 won't be out for a bit anyways, and then by time they work out everything, it'll be awhile.

tuaguild
16 Jun 2009, 18:49
yeah

COBRAws
16 Jun 2009, 20:19
If it isn't fair, then why agree to the contact in the first place?

In the first place, I rarely agree on such contracts. And on the second place, these contracts mean nothing in some countries where Laws dont allow this clauses.

tuaguild
16 Jun 2009, 20:47
i know that in the us they arent

--------------- Added 1245185671 at 1245185671 ---------------

The one point i would like to bring up is that IB/Jelsoft Legally has to notify all License Holders active or otherwise ahead of time when they plan to change the way vbulletin is licensed. If they dont it brings up a whole legal mess for IB/Jelsoft. At least that is the case in the US where alot of state/federal courts have ordered that changes in a License/Customer Agreement are not enforceable unless the customer is notified in advance.

edytwinky
16 Jun 2009, 23:08
Whether its fair or not is one of those arguments that not everybody will agree upon or probably even change their minds on. People are already set in their ways of thinking now.

While I look forward to vb 4.0, I probably wouldn't even upgrade or think about it until a stable release is out, compatible mods are available that I need, and I can come to terms with whatever the price may be. That will be much later down the road so its almost a moot point to argue.

tuaguild
17 Jun 2009, 00:13
edytwinky you make some good points but honestly i just hope they make the right decision before the release so that everyone knows everything in advance weather they agree to it or not

cheat-master30
17 Jun 2009, 00:50
Quite honestly, from my experience of the vBulletin 4 discussions over there, I think a lot of people are really, really exaggerating the point, and getting into all kinds of wild conspiracy theories rather than just going on the information that's actually available.

tuaguild
17 Jun 2009, 01:44
thats y i have said do not act on the speculation just take a kinda wait and see attitude like i have

edytwinky
17 Jun 2009, 03:56
That's what I was getting at. Right now everything is pure speculation. Many people have already made it clear they think its unfair because of the agreements and contracts and whatever. And others have said they find it kind of fair and they understand.

People have made their points and i'm sure Jelsoft and crew have taken it into consideration. Part of me thinks a decision is all but made on what they are going to do so its pointless for everybody to beat a dead horse.

We can now only sit back and hope for the best. Hope that 4.0 will be worth whatever price they decide to set it at....that is even if there is a price for current users to upgrade to. If its not then owned license owners like myself can just stick with 3.8 until we deem it necessary to spend the money and upgrade.

COBRAws
17 Jun 2009, 05:36
Whether its fair or not is one of those arguments that not everybody will agree upon or probably even change their minds on. People are already set in their ways of thinking now.

While I look forward to vb 4.0, I probably wouldn't even upgrade or think about it until a stable release is out, compatible mods are available that I need, and I can come to terms with whatever the price may be. That will be much later down the road so its almost a moot point to argue.
It was said that vb4 would be released as GOLD and there wont be any RC's. Anyway, most of us always wait for the modifications to be ported before upgrading.

tuaguild
17 Jun 2009, 12:44
true

Paul M
17 Jun 2009, 22:20
More alpha/beta news ;


How can I get on the alpha testing team?

The alpha testing team is already very full, so we cannot accommodate any more testers.

How about getting on the beta testing team?

Space is still available on the beta team. Like the alpha test round, beta testing will be done by a highly focused group of experienced testers, though beta will be a larger group than alpha.

Who is eligible to participate?

Customers who have current, active vBulletin licenses and run active vBulletin sites are eligible. Selection is based on several factors, and priority will be given to long-term customers who run multiple vBulletin sites, as well as established developers of plug-ins and skins.

Link >> http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311075

freewilley
19 Jun 2009, 23:54
that sounds interesting I think I might not be given preference :(

cheat-master30
20 Jun 2009, 21:15
I still need to remember to apply, darn current circumstances.

ExTincTi0N
24 Jun 2009, 05:09
So any new so called date of this coming out?

HMBeaty
24 Jun 2009, 05:18
Still says the same thing on vb.com, Q2 2009

--------------- Added 1245820782 at 1245820782 ---------------

My guess though, at the rate things are going, it probably won't be released until late July or August

ExTincTi0N
24 Jun 2009, 05:34
Well isnt it past q2?

HMBeaty
24 Jun 2009, 05:35
it will be at the end of this month

ExTincTi0N
24 Jun 2009, 05:35
Ah okay lol.

SięuNoopy
24 Jun 2009, 07:18
Today 24 - 6 - 09
I am waiting 4.0 Alpha ^^
vBulletin 4.0 is so hot for this summer

atcspaul
24 Jun 2009, 18:31
it will definitely be worth seeing what changes they have made. i think it is a great format already

0 Seo 0
24 Jun 2009, 20:36
Q2 End in June.

HMBeaty
24 Jun 2009, 20:53
We are working hard and plan to have vBulletin 4.0 released in beta form by the end of Q2 2009.
Key words everyone needs to be looking at. There aren't and didn't say that they ARE releasing at the end of Q2 2009, but they PLAN to.

Denver Jackson
24 Jun 2009, 21:08
The more you think about it lads the longer it lasts if you think about other things it will come alot quicker than you think. Belive me.

edytwinky
28 Jun 2009, 18:16
New update on vb4

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311720

yeshoward
29 Jun 2009, 05:57
IPB 3.0 is out, VB is now under a lot of pressures XD

freewilley
29 Jun 2009, 07:19
IPB 3.0 is out, VB is now under a lot of pressures XD

nah I don't think so really!

VonDoom
29 Jun 2009, 20:36
ugh IPB, lol Not missing those days.

cheat-master30
01 Jul 2009, 23:54
I'm surprised this topic is so quiet, and that no one has commented on the staff list posted in announcements over at .com (aka http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1755748#post1755748). Then again, how come that announcement hasn't been reposted over here?

SwollenCranium
02 Jul 2009, 01:18
I'm surprised this topic is so quiet, and that no one has commented on the staff list posted in announcements over at .com


In my case its the complete apathy toward this whole 4.0 ... bla bla affair.


But yeah .. good luck with YOUR enthusiasm none the less. :up:

rajubd
13 Jul 2009, 03:17
Any report about 4.

HMBeaty
13 Jul 2009, 03:19
No.

Marco van Herwaarden
13 Jul 2009, 10:45
Any news about vB4 will be posted on vB.com.

napy8gen
13 Jul 2009, 15:04
I'd be surprised to see it before August...Jelsoft is notorious for underestimating timeframes.

They slipped already Q2 for beta, we hope to see only Alpha this July(already Q3), then only in August when we see Beta hopefully. I estimated we can see Gold next year. I dont think they wanted to sell beta product. no one does.Beta will be buggy and as usual will run for Beta 2, beta3, beta4 for months. then we see RC1, RC2, RC3. I dont Think Jelsoft would skip this release method as it is bad for the product itself.And as usual Beta and RC is not supported by Jelsoft.

Marco van Herwaarden
13 Jul 2009, 15:20
Alpha and Beta stages will be very short. Once Alpha is our it should not take very long before production version is ready.

rajubd
14 Jul 2009, 07:20
If ur lisence remain one year can u upgrade 3.8.3 to 4

edytwinky
14 Jul 2009, 07:45
If ur lisence remain one year can u upgrade 3.8.3 to 4

No information regarding that has been released yet

Taragon
14 Jul 2009, 16:10
nah I don't think so really!
agree

though I think both can feel the pressure by their cheaper and better working and better looking alternatives like ExpressionEngine

edytwinky
14 Jul 2009, 18:39
My biggest gripe with vb 4.0 is not so much the possibility of being charged just being left out of the dark. For the people with expiring licenses and what not, it'd be nice to know whether they should go ahead and renew now or wait.

Just being kept in the know would ease a lot of people's frustrations.

rajubd
15 Jul 2009, 16:22
We need built in search engine optimization. Because vbseo just useing 90 percent of my server resurce. I have to uninstall it

cheat-master30
15 Jul 2009, 17:50
Well it's either going to be a discount or free for existing license holders, both owned and leased, from what the information says.

MikeWarner
15 Jul 2009, 21:32
We need built in search engine optimization. Because vbseo just useing 90 percent of my server resurce. I have to uninstall itAnd it needs to reroute old VBSeo URLs to the new location - otherwise ranking will drop big time if links are broken.

cheat-master30
16 Jul 2009, 00:31
That's a good point with the redirect. Shouldn't be difficult to code, and I hope they come up with a system similar to the IMPEX importer in that sense (I think Impex has redirects from other forum type standard URLs, right?)

rajubd
16 Jul 2009, 04:00
And it needs to reroute old VBSeo URLs to the new location - otherwise ranking will drop big time if links are broken.

Ya all link are broken every one getting 404 error. I index all 404 to forum root folder. If u know how to fix it pm me

ExTincTi0N
16 Jul 2009, 06:20
They slipped already Q2 for beta, we hope to see only Alpha this July(already Q3), then only in August when we see Beta hopefully. I estimated we can see Gold next year. I dont think they wanted to sell beta product. no one does.Beta will be buggy and as usual will run for Beta 2, beta3, beta4 for months. then we see RC1, RC2, RC3. I dont Think Jelsoft would skip this release method as it is bad for the product itself.And as usual Beta and RC is not supported by Jelsoft.

They arn't going to release beta or rc's.

yeshoward
16 Jul 2009, 08:01
when things like this saying Q2 it always means Q2 X 2= Q4 !!

Swampfox
16 Jul 2009, 12:31
Well it's either going to be a discount or free for existing license holders, both owned and leased, from what the information says.

same info said it would be released yesterday :p

Boosted Panda
16 Jul 2009, 15:13
ugh IPB, lol Not missing those days.

I have both an IPB and vB license, and my vB future rests solely on vB4.

cheat-master30
16 Jul 2009, 15:33
same info said it would be released yesterday :p

True, but the discounts part was posted after the leaked information was, often by Ray Morgan himself.

edytwinky
17 Jul 2009, 16:15
Hopefully by the end of the month vb will give us a big update with what exactly is going on.

cheat-master30
17 Jul 2009, 19:12
That would be the best case scenario, and would certainly stop all the fighting over on the .com site.

1Unreal
17 Jul 2009, 19:35
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=313353

Four to five weeks :\

vijayninel
18 Jul 2009, 05:13
If it is going to take 5 weeks at best for the alpha ....then at this rate it will take at least 3 more months for the Beta. Way behind the original schedule.

napy8gen
18 Jul 2009, 07:38
If it is going to take 5 weeks at best for the alpha ....then at this rate it will take at least 3 more months for the Beta. Way behind the original schedule.

Yes, we are going to see the private Alpha (only selected members) including me in end of August or early September, this Alpha probably will run for a month, so you will then see the private Beta (selected people) in October and it will run until november for private viewing, that left only December, I dont expect Alpha and Beta without any bugs, so Beta will run for private for a month or 2, so you will get your vb4 by the end of this year/or new year or as Christmas gift.

anyway, announcing the news without knowing the exactly ETA of the product has burden customers and 3rd party service provider like me - vb skins , sales are declining because people keep waiting the anticipated vb4.

Something to learn is not to make news if you cannot make it a news, and another thing is better late then never.

edytwinky
18 Jul 2009, 17:58
I hope we get news regarding pricing before I have to renew my owned license. Thats all I care about as i'm sure many others do too

cheat-master30
18 Jul 2009, 20:23
That's of starting ALPHA TESTING. Which is a bit disappointing really.

Lynne
18 Jul 2009, 20:50
That's of starting ALPHA TESTING. Which is a bit disappointing really.
I'm probably one of the few people that is happy that alpha is being put off so far from the original estimate. I will hopefully be home in time for alpha testing now.

rajubd
19 Jul 2009, 04:29
So alpha testing starts or not?

napy8gen
19 Jul 2009, 04:50
That's of starting ALPHA TESTING. Which is a bit disappointing really.

yes disappointing. twice delayed. Expected in June now we'll see it in August/early September.
and its bad for business for vbullletin itself and others.

So alpha testing starts or not?
it should be out, we'll have to wait.it is private install you cannot see it unless you are in the selected team.

combs
19 Jul 2009, 04:50
This really sucks...a lot of our rival boards are on IPB, and their new software blows VB away. And we have to keep waiting for something new and some type of improvements..but even these things listed don't make it sound very promising.

I know the post says your team is huge. And there are 327K members on this forum, and i'd assume the sales are around there as well, a lot of which are return sales..and I can do the math. It just doesn't seem like the money is being put to use anymore. I still like the software, but it really doesn't give me much more than the free ones out there anymore.

Just my opinion..I am still excited for the VB4 release, just seems like it's taking forever!

Wabuf
20 Jul 2009, 15:57
vBulletin 4 sounds exciting, but the thing that makes me worried is vBulletin pulling another price hike for licenses.I do hope they offer a free or reduced pricing for renewals so that we can get back into the swing of things.

rajubd
20 Jul 2009, 20:52
If my lisense remain can i upgrade free

dutchbb
20 Jul 2009, 20:56
This really sucks...a lot of our rival boards are on IPB, and their new software blows VB away. And we have to keep waiting for something new and some type of improvements..but even these things listed don't make it sound very promising.

I know the post says your team is huge. And there are 327K members on this forum, and i'd assume the sales are around there as well, a lot of which are return sales..and I can do the math. It just doesn't seem like the money is being put to use anymore. I still like the software, but it really doesn't give me much more than the free ones out there anymore.

Just my opinion..I am still excited for the VB4 release, just seems like it's taking forever!
You should check the feature list of vb compared to others like IPB. The latter is still missing some key features that I couldn't miss and which vb has. And the free ones are missing tons of features.

VB is now in the hands of a big company and we can only hope they will improve it and release a good and stable update this year.

Boosted Panda
22 Jul 2009, 00:30
I honestly don't know why anyone is surprised by the delays. That's just what vB has become. I also hate the not public Alpha/Beta testing, I reported tons of bugs during the 3.5.X series and above and was denied Beta testing.

Oh well. Just a small fish in a giant pond I guess.

napy8gen
22 Jul 2009, 13:15
I honestly don't know why anyone is surprised by the delays. That's just what vB has become. I also hate the not public Alpha/Beta testing, I reported tons of bugs during the 3.5.X series and above and was denied Beta testing.

Oh well. Just a small fish in a giant pond I guess.

Yes, I agree, we should have public beta not private one, more live testers more better the software just like old days when they have live beta and beta release in a series, also release candidates, but as I understood, after the private beta they just release the final version. I dont think this is a good practice also maybe because they are too way behind schedule because they/people started talking about this vb4 since early this year, and it can only be out only this December/Jan 2010.

Marco van Herwaarden
22 Jul 2009, 13:34
I doubt the closed Alpha/Beta will cause more issues with the final release. On the contrary, the quality of the testing might improve.

1Unreal
22 Jul 2009, 14:27
I don't understand why beta testing isn't open to everyone.

Marco van Herwaarden
22 Jul 2009, 15:45
That was a decission made to have a shorter beta-period, but with a higher quality of testing.

edytwinky
22 Jul 2009, 19:55
Man that sucks for the timetable. I think my owned license updates will expire before then.

SwollenCranium
22 Jul 2009, 22:29
<sarcasm>

Yeah, who would want an open beta test field where thousands test a product anyway.

Better to test on a few dozen, a hundred platforms at best, because the rest of us are too simple minded to report bugs anyway.

Yeah and its also great not to release in beta so that all the mod authors will have to play catch up on changes, I mean after all a bland, default Vb is a happy Vb.

Good call !

</sarcasm>

dutchbb
22 Jul 2009, 23:18
<sarcasm>

Yeah, who would want an open beta test field where thousands test a product anyway.

Better to test on a few dozen, a hundred platforms at best, because the rest of us are too simple minded to report bugs anyway.

Yeah and its also great not to release in beta so that all the mod authors will have to play catch up on changes, I mean after all a bland, default Vb is a happy Vb.

Good call !

</sarcasm>
Apple OS X versions are also only beta tested by a very limited number of users. Do you find this OS to be less secure or bugfree?

It all depends on experience of the new devs, and of course the quality of the testing.

It can go wrong either way...

BTW why would you want to beta test software on a production board anyway? I stopped doing that since 4 years ago.

SwollenCranium
22 Jul 2009, 23:36
Apple OS X versions are also only beta tested by a very limited number of users. Do you find this OS to be less secure or bugfree?

It all depends on experience of the new devs, and of course the quality of the testing.

It can go wrong either way...

BTW why would you want to beta test software on a production board anyway? I stopped doing that since 4 years ago.

To each his own I suppose.

Not fighting the issue just stating an opinion.

rajubd
23 Jul 2009, 03:48
To each his own I suppose.

Not fighting the issue just stating an opinion.

Beta test should be open for all because more people test it more bug will be detect.

R1lover
23 Jul 2009, 05:07
<sarcasm>

Yeah, who would want an open beta test field where thousands test a product anyway.

Better to test on a few dozen, a hundred platforms at best, because the rest of us are too simple minded to report bugs anyway.

Yeah and its also great not to release in beta so that all the mod authors will have to play catch up on changes, I mean after all a bland, default Vb is a happy Vb.

Good call !

</sarcasm>

I agree, and those people who will need to re-create many many sites design wise will be behind the gun, while they could release a beta and all the coding could be completed while they test and test and test.... This really sucks for designers and coders of modifications.

It looks like there will be many many boring stock vb4 sites out there for a while to come....or people just won't upgrade until everything catches up.... which would hurt vb sales wise.

Winterfell
23 Jul 2009, 14:16
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/web/1283695509.html

Hmmm . . .

Wayne Luke
23 Jul 2009, 15:35
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/web/1283695509.html

Hmmm . . .
Nothing new. They have been hiring new personnel all year to work on vBulletin. I believe there are actually 3 or 4 positions available still for development.

Boosted Panda
25 Jul 2009, 01:42
I doubt the closed Alpha/Beta will cause more issues with the final release. On the contrary, the quality of the testing might improve.

I'm sorry I have to respectfully disagree with this comment. While I understand having what you all feel is the best testing candidates testing the Beta, I think you are also forgetting that most of the people who have had vB for years and have been active testers, designers, and programmers are now left sitting and waiting. I have a site hinged on the release of vB4 and tons of things to convert from 3.8 to 4 including mods I have posted here on vB.org. I would love the ability to get ahead of the game and start coding and getting familiar so that I know what to expect. Now I am forced to just go running out of the gates with 4 when it is released and quite frankly I will have limited confidence in its quality upon release (kind of like how people say never get the first rev of something.)

This thing that has always made vB the best is its community and IB has totally stripped the community away from vB. All we are now are customers who give them money, we no longer have a say in the product, and its quite clear that they don't want our feedback either.

I know the vB vs IPB thing comes up all the time but maybe IB should take some lessons from IPB's new customer service. Like there open Beta and there Skin contests.

Just some advice from a long time user who sees a lot of familiar faces here fed up and frustrated with the "New vB".

Also one more rant... I know its a dead horse but this delay is not fair to us. You guys made a commitment to your customers and instead you have closed down all discussions on vb.com for things like this and have left us almost totally in the dark about the development of vB, the testing, pricing, and now the release.

Business is business, but this is not good business guys.

I mean this as respectfully as possible.