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View Full Version : Announcing the Presale Event for vBulletin 4.0 Suite and Important License Changes


vB.Org System
13 Oct 2009, 22:50
We hope your community is enjoying the flexibility and power of vBulletin™. As always, our goal is to offer a great product at a great price, and we are dedicated to helping you build and grow successful online communities.

Over the last 12 months, we have been building vBulletin 4.0 to be the most powerful forum and social publishing software. Today, we are proud to introduce the new vBulletin 4.0 Publishing Suite product that includes the power of the vBulletin 4.0 Forums with a seamlessly integrated content management system (CMS) and blogging platform.

As a preferred customer with an active license, we are excited to offer the vBulletin Publishing Suite at a pre-sale discount price of only $130 (over 50% off regular price). This is a truly limited one-time special offer giving you $120 off the upgrade price but will expire on Friday October 30, 2009.

Learn more about vBulletin Publishing Suite features and pricing on our new website: http://www.vbulletin.com/ (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/../)

Beginning today, we are introducing new a license structure. vBulletin is changing to a one-time owned license fee for each major point release. That means no more annual renewal fees. Once you purchase a major point version, you’ll receive maintenance, security and minor point releases for the life of 4.x.

You have the option to keep your current active license until it expires (according to the 12 month term and conditions). For the remainder of your active license, you will continue to receive support and have access to forum software updates, including vBulletin 4.0 Forums. Once your license expires you will only be able to access the 4 Series software updates by switching to the new one-time owned license. For more information, visit the vBulletin FAQ.

Over the last 10 years, our products have offered an exceptional value and we look forward to bringing you the best and keeping you as a loyal customer. Our team is expanding in number and expertise in order to develop more innovative features and to deliver them faster. We are investing in exciting development areas such as new products and services for 'Big Boards' and mobile applications and look forward to helping you grow your community.

Sincerely,

The vBulletin Team


More... (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320055&goto=newpost)

Flowsion
13 Oct 2009, 23:03
What a joke, lol. So we have to buy every single version, $130 everytime they upgrade? Those who have had their license expiring soon are screwed?

vithorius
13 Oct 2009, 23:07
My license has just expired last week... (although I still have the 2 months to renew at the lowest price - $40, I believe)...


Will I be eligible for this upgrade?

jwashburn
13 Oct 2009, 23:12
$130 bucks on a product you havent even seen yet. basically you have to pony up $130 bucks in the next 2 weeks otherwise its going to cost you $250 to upgrade.

hypoharry
13 Oct 2009, 23:15
I thought it would be free to all existing license holders. I dont mind paying the yearly price but double per year pushes out the boat

YsTyle
13 Oct 2009, 23:25
active customers gets it for free?
if yes, I had the chance to renew my license for the next 60 days after the license expires,
and i had more than 10 days to renew. can I still renew for 40$?

combs
13 Oct 2009, 23:26
This is BS...you guys are throwing away your company. Not only did the release take 2 years to come out(and it's still a long time away), but now we have this so you can fatten your wallets!

I was thinking about going to IPB before...now I am 100% going.

CrossBones
13 Oct 2009, 23:32
I'm out!

forum4
13 Oct 2009, 23:35
Hold up.....The upgrade to the 4.0 is free for those that have a license and need to upgrade. The $130 is if you want to upgrade to the Suite, which is the blog, articles and such.

The actual 4.0 vbulltin will be free to upgrade for those with a current license.

So, if you own a current license, you can upgrade to the 4.0 for free and run the 4.0 till whenever. If you lease your license, you can run 4.0 for free until your lease is out. Then, you'd need to buy a license for $195 for the vBulletin 4.0. If you don't own any license, it's the $195 for 4.0.

I think I will upgrade and then just run 4.0 until 5.0 comes out eventually.

bigwest
13 Oct 2009, 23:44
This has Windows Vista written all over it.

nyqnzguju999
13 Oct 2009, 23:47
lol someone make a new forums software

bigwest
13 Oct 2009, 23:48
All of this is just really lame, but it would have gone over better if vBulletin would have allowed the special upgrade price to be in effect for all license holders up to the point of their annual renewal.

All of my license renewals are in June. (I set money aside just for that purpose every year)

I certainly wasn't budgeting for several hundreds of dollars in purchases within the next few weeks.

This is an awful way to treat loyal customers.

Jeff66
13 Oct 2009, 23:52
What a shambles this is...


My license has expired, but I received the email offering me a discounted license for $130 as I have an active license. Problem number one - they think I've got an active license when I haven't.

I logged in to the old members area and selected 'renew', which took me to the new members area. Problem number two. The new members area isn't linked to the old one. Not a major problem - just log in again.

But as my browser remembers the password I don't know what it is, so I clicked on the "forgot password" link. Problem number three. The forgot password link goes to a 404 page.

Eventually I worked out the real url to get my password reset, and logged in to the new members area.

Problem number four. The price showing for a new license is $235. The price to renew my existing license is $250. No mention of the $130 I was offered by email, but they want more to renew my existing license than they do to buy a new one.


All I wanted to do was look at the options, and there were four problems I encountered along the way. If this is the level of competence we can expect from them from now on I don't want to imagine how buggy the new version will be, I'll stick with what I've got.

bigwest
13 Oct 2009, 23:57
Jeff, problem number 6.... they are asking us to pay for something that none of us have seen. There isn't even a semi-functional demo anywhere.

I'm guessing this isn't gonna fly very well.

nyqnzguju999
13 Oct 2009, 23:58
Its just BS Period.

ashley76
14 Oct 2009, 00:05
My biggest problem is (I am going to use the forum so I have no problem with that) but, the suite... I haven't even seen it in action and I am expected to fork over $130.00 on blind faith?

Gene Steinberg
14 Oct 2009, 00:17
My biggest problem is (I am going to use the forum so I have no problem with that) but, the suite... I haven't even seen it in action and I am expected to fork over $130.00 on blind faith?

Worse, there's no time with which to come to a decision. We're talking about October 30th, so we have 23 days to pay up or pay more later. That's totally unfair and unreasonable.

Three or four months may be reasonable; this is not. vBulletin needs to play fair with its customers.

And I haven't even started talking about the draconian style upgrade process. There's no conversion or translation system. Just start from scratch. Did anyone think that maybe this isn't such an easy thing to do? And why can't there by some sort of style upgrade to the new system? Don't tell me it can't be done? Just do it.

Peace,
Gene

vitoreis
14 Oct 2009, 00:28
I have 3 active licences, 2 with blogs... I need to pay $390 in next 2 weeks or $750 later to get the Publishing Suite in all sites... are you joking? It's much money in a little period of time!

Give us same more time upgrade with this pre-sale discount or we can't buy this Publishing Suite to all communities (just one!).

Jon1422
14 Oct 2009, 00:28
Lovely :rolleyes:

I run a MINI site for MINI enthusiasts, and on Friday (16th) I head off on a two week charity rally through Italy - not returning until the first week November.

So I have 48 hours to discuss with my fellow mods whether or not to try and save our (non for profit) community forum money by investing blindly in forum software we haven't seen, or do we risk being overtaken by our competitors and wait till November?

Lovely position to put us in, thanks.

Jon

daveaite
14 Oct 2009, 00:28
Newbs care more about money than their customers.

Jeff66
14 Oct 2009, 00:31
I've just noticed this:

Bulk Pricing:

0-2 $235
3-5 $235
6-10 $235
11-24 $235
25-49 $232
50 or more $220

So people who buy 3-5 get a discount of.... $0, as do people who buy 6-10 and 11-24. People who buy 25-49 get a $3 discount. That's a massive saving of just over 1%, what a generous offer :rolleyes:


I'm beginning to think this is all some kind of joke. It's not April 1st is it?

diesalot
14 Oct 2009, 00:40
I think alot of people have not read this part properly.

Beginning today, we are introducing new a license structure. vBulletin is changing to a one-time owned license fee for each major point release. That means no more annual renewal fees. Once you purchase a major point version, you’ll receive maintenance, security and minor point releases for the life of 4.x.


So you dont have to pay again untill 5.x.
I might be wrong but im pretty sure that is what it clearly states.


But yeh. they should be giving more time for the pre sale offer.

maidos
14 Oct 2009, 00:45
agree this is a complete BS 250 usd for existing customer... arent they greedy for more money ...im selling my license and going with iipb for christ sake

Pete C
14 Oct 2009, 00:48
I think alot of people have not read this part properly.



So you dont have to pay again untill 5.x.
I might be wrong but im pretty sure that is what it clearly states.




That's what it says . . but when will they release 5? Next year, the year after? It's not really possible to evaluate long-term cost anymore, and I have a sneaking suspicion that's just the way they want it.

bigwest
14 Oct 2009, 00:59
So you dont have to pay again untill 5.x.
I might be wrong but im pretty sure that is what it clearly states.Yup, and I am guessing that major upgrades will come much more frequently now that they can charge big bucks for them.

I think what Jelsoft doesn't realize is... their software isn't exactly cheap. It's almost like buying Illustrator or Photoshop.

I love vBulletin but is it really worth this much? I have three forums to maintain, and this is becoming extremely expensive.

gruffyserv
14 Oct 2009, 01:04
That's what it says . . but when will they release 5? Next year, the year after? It's not really possible to evaluate long-term cost anymore, and I have a sneaking suspicion that's just the way they want it.



I'll take a wild stab at this. VB 5.x will come out 12-14 months from when VB4 is launched to make sure everyone's license is expired, and VB5 will require buying another "new license".

Remember, they won't be getting revenue from people who need to upgrade to the latest version anymore since upgrades for 4 will be "free" to license holders.


That being said, I would probably buy the suite at half price if I could actually see it or at least see screenshots of it.

Jeff66
14 Oct 2009, 01:06
I run two non profit sites, the only way I'll be able to pay for the new version is if I ask my forum members to contribute, and they won't do that without seeing a working site first.

So I don't think I'll tell them there's a new version, the existing one works fine.

murekhalir
14 Oct 2009, 01:11
I own 4 forums - and want a demo before you make me dump 4x w.e. price there is for this.


The people want a demo.



This is just as bad as my windows vista.

TNCclubman
14 Oct 2009, 01:15
where can we buy stock in vB? lol

morrow
14 Oct 2009, 01:28
I've been a VB user since 2002. The 30 bux a year was reasonable. I'll continue to pay that for the updates but not a cent more, nevermind $130.00 for something I can't even see... Not only will I not be shelling out $130.00, after Oct 30, it goes up to $250.

My users don't use the Blogs. There are so many better FREE blogs out there right now, why bother with VB's? Ok, so now you get a VBulletin CMS... VBAdvanced is a pretty nice CMS and it's FREEEEEEEEEEEE.

I guess the end is near. I won't be continuing my yearly subscription for anything more than what I've been paying, especially not with this economy (US).

Morsolo
14 Oct 2009, 01:41
I'll take a wild stab at this. VB 5.x will come out 12-14 months from when VB4 is launched to make sure everyone's license is expired, and VB5 will require buying another "new license".

Remember, they won't be getting revenue from people who need to upgrade to the latest version anymore since upgrades for 4 will be "free" to license holders.


That being said, I would probably buy the suite at half price if I could actually see it or at least see screenshots of it.

I was actually thinking that...

Jelsoft has been doing this with vB 3...

Main Version
-- Advancements
---- Bug Fixes

3.0
-- 3.1
---- 3.1.1
-- 3.2
---- 3.2.1
---- 3.2.2
-- 3.3

I bet now they're going to do this...

Main Version & Advancements
-- Bug Fixes

4.0
-- 4.1
-- 4.2
-- 4.3
5.0
-- 5.1
-- 5.2
-- 5.3

I am obviously exaggerating that a little, but I 100% think they'll make the release cycle quicker... And a quick cycle results in us all needing to fork out more money.

Pete C
14 Oct 2009, 01:51
where can we buy stock in vB? lol

Do you really want to invest in corporate financial suicide? How about you buy my car instead. You haven't seen it, you haven't driven it, and it'll probably need fixing just after the warranty runs out. You pay me first and I'll just send it over when I'm good and ready. :D :D

Swampfox
14 Oct 2009, 01:55
If you dont want the suite, dont buy it, simple

this is just an offer to buy it at a discount

If your license is current the upgrade to vB 4.0 will be free (forum only)

KingPin6
14 Oct 2009, 01:56
what about us poor shmucks who bought the blog system already we get screwed over doubly now? gj jelsoft, sucks to be me for supporting jelsoft and buying 3 licenses.

ZapFlash
14 Oct 2009, 02:00
My license has expired, but I received the email offering me a discounted license for $130 as I have an active license. Problem number one - they think I've got an active license when I haven't.

....
Problem number four. The price showing for a new license is $235. The price to renew my existing license is $250. No mention of the $130 I was offered by email, but they want more to renew my existing license than they do to buy a new one....



i'm in the same situation, and as a non profit site, it was an extra effort when i moved from phpbb to vbulletin, later i paid for the blogs, now if i see this worth, i MAY make another effort to pay the $130 offer that i received in the mail, but i just see the $235 option, then why was worth to originally pay for the owned license and the blogs?

Gene Steinberg
14 Oct 2009, 02:01
If you dont want the suite, dont buy it, simple

this is just an offer to buy it at a discount

If your license is current the upgrade to vB 4.0 will be free (forum only)

Yes, but when your support agreement expires, isn't it true that you no longer get free updates of 4.x versions unless you buy a full license?

What's the skinny on this?

Peace,
Gene

nomoreturn
14 Oct 2009, 02:13
Prchased 4.0 Publishing Suite

Jeff66
14 Oct 2009, 02:19
If your license is current the upgrade to vB 4.0 will be free (forum only)

And if the license isn't current the upgrade will be $250. Yesterday it would have been $40 or $60.


In the past people with an owned license had to pay a relatively small fee to renew the license and get the latest version. They have changed this without giving us any advance notice. Most companies in this situation would have contacted people whose license had expired and encouraged them to renew before the new prices came into effect.


They've obviously not thought this through - or if they have, they don't care that they're going to lose a lot of customers.

yessir
14 Oct 2009, 02:19
Yes, but when your support agreement expires, isn't it true that you no longer get free updates of 4.x versions unless you buy a full license?

What's the skinny on this?

Peace,
Gene
That's how I understand it.

Basically, if you own a forum and blog license, you are compelled to buy into vb4 because there are no more license renewals.

One way or another, they are screwing over existing license owners who bought OWNED licenses.

GoTTi
14 Oct 2009, 02:23
And if the license isn't current the upgrade will be $250. Yesterday it would have been $40 or $60.


In the past people with an owned license had to pay a relatively small fee to renew the license and get the latest version. They have changed this without giving us any advance notice. Most companies in this situation would have contacted people whose license had expired and encouraged them to renew before the new prices came into effect.


They've obviously not thought this through - or if they have, they don't care that they're going to lose a lot of customers.

ofcourse they thought of it. doing it this way, they dont loose the new renewal fees because of the renewed licenses that poured in, now they will be getting a full value purchase from everyone that is expired....

Bilderback
14 Oct 2009, 02:30
We have several forum licenses and blog but it looks like cut back time for me.
I enjoy the vbulletin software, unfortunately it's becoming too rich for my blood.
Ah, the good old days when everyone pitched in to buy a license and posted away
while AdSense generated our next years renewal.
The best thing was all the free Community input in the form of addons.
Countless hours of fun were spent just trying out new modifications and styles.
I expect that will soon trail off as more developers and designers begin charging
for premium mods and styles to cover their premium time and licensing.
It's been fun while it lasted and I'll certainly miss it.
Wish the best to those who can afford the new vB.

fattony69
14 Oct 2009, 02:35
what about us poor shmucks who bought the blog system already we get screwed over doubly now? gj jelsoft, sucks to be me for supporting jelsoft and buying 3 licenses.

i'm in the same situation, and as a non profit site, it was an extra effort when i moved from phpbb to vbulletin, later i paid for the blogs, now if i see this worth, i MAY make another effort to pay the $130 offer that i received in the mail, but i just see the $235 option, then why was worth to originally pay for the owned license and the blogs?

I am in the same situation. They better give us like Branding-Free for us.

Brandon Sheley
14 Oct 2009, 02:36
doesn't look like I'll be using the vb blogs anymore :(

kevinfx
14 Oct 2009, 02:43
i own forum license and blog, so if i want to continue using blog, i have to pay $130 for the upgrade that include CMS, which i dont really need ?

i bought blog license ... i own it? and i can't continue using it ? wtf? am i correct

Jeff66
14 Oct 2009, 02:45
now they will be getting a full value purchase from everyone that is expired....

No they won't, because a lot of people won't renew at the current prices. I certainly won't be paying the $500 they want for my two licenses, but I would have continued to be a customer if I'd been allowed to renew at the old price.


Customer loyalty is important in any business, particularly a fast moving one like this where competing products are being improved all the time.


In the last couple of years VBulletin hasn't moved on much, but products such as IPB have. One of the reasons I stayed with vBulletin was because of the cheap renewals, knowing that eventually there would be a major upgrade that would be worth waiting for.

But if I want to buy that upgrade it will cost me $100 more per license than it will cost me to buy IPB.

Why should I stay with vBulletin now?

Eric
14 Oct 2009, 03:07
Do folks not read the vBulletin official forum anymore?

http://www.vbulletin.com/index.php?do=screenshots

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320183

Swampfox
14 Oct 2009, 04:02
There is always the option to stay with 3.8 and dont pay anything

Since they are changing the license fees to last the life of the version, we should be able to get updates for 3.8 until its end of life, unless they want to have a double standard

after seeing the screenshots of 4.0, Im pretty sure that's what I will be doing.

Switch3130
14 Oct 2009, 04:23
I'm impressed with vB and I'm glad I've become a customer with you guys. You guys appear to strive for excellence, which is what I love. Yes I just upgraded my license and I'm a little upset I wasted my money since I could have put that $60 dollars towards 4.0.

All I wish as I will be upgrading to 4.0 eventually is to receive that discount since I won't be able to afford it before the date you guys have set. That's my only problem. I believe you guys should be generous enough to give this discount to all customers who have been with you guys for 1+ years. Don't you think that would be fair after I've pumped quite a bit of money in your guys pockets already?

The Notorious
14 Oct 2009, 04:44
What a joke, lol.

GhoHan
14 Oct 2009, 04:57
Today Upgrade License DOne and Ready to use :)

amjadz4
14 Oct 2009, 05:16
Okay my owned license is still active till Feb 2010 and I only want to upgrade to 4.0 Forums classic (free?). I do not see that option on the purchase page??!

Attitude5ire
14 Oct 2009, 05:22
I believe the VB marketing team are promoting VB4 as a new superhero movie (obviously clear looking at their ridiculous homepage graphic), so they expect ppl to line up and pre-order.
Pre-Order within 30'oct - FAIL

forum4
14 Oct 2009, 07:28
So I guess if I upgraded to the 4.0 I'd lose the free vBAdvanced and wouldn't be able to have the Recent threads anymore. Well, that would suck, but sure isn't worth $130 bucks. I guess if that is the case, I'd just stick with 3.8 to.

Plus, I'm thinking a lot of the mods won't work with the new structure, so there goes all of those free mods we could use.

myown
14 Oct 2009, 07:53
how to switch to ibp? and what will be costs for running that software?

gamerfu
14 Oct 2009, 08:20
how to switch to ibp? and what will be costs for running that software?

Yeah i have been looking @ IPB for a month now. $25 renewal per 6 months is really attractive.

myown
14 Oct 2009, 08:33
do they cheat with so called "owned License" what is their credibility about this issue?

saltedm8
14 Oct 2009, 09:11
Dear VB team, please can you upgrade http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/ to your new version 4.

Not having your own forum on the latest version looks like you don't have faith in your own product; it will also enable many of us to judge if we want to upgrade and what version we want to purchase (forum or suite).

Thanking you.

FullyTested
14 Oct 2009, 09:16
Not having your own forum on the latest version looks like you don't have faith in your own product; it will also enable many of us to judge if we want to upgrade and what version we want to purchase (forum or suite).

Has anyone from Internet Brands finished business school? Did they even attend?
They seem to screw up every website/product they purchase.

R-D
14 Oct 2009, 09:31
As I said over on vb.com:

I read the leaked stuff a while back and really thought you'd have understood by now exactly where your customers stood, given the outcry at the time and since, but I guess not.

2 weeks to buy based on screenshots is just ludicrous and I especially love the $195 (+) forum fee on every big version update. If that's not a massive incentive for vBulletin to increase the version number far faster, then I have no idea what is. You can deny that as much as you like but your new focus entirely on money and your complete disregard for your (previously excellent) reputation and your customers says everything we need to know.

Oh well, it's been great - I've had a lot of fun with vBulletin over these past nearly 2 years. It's too bad that had to end and with such a blatant money grab too. I'm truly disappointed.


It really is sad that it all ended like this, as I've had a ball with vBulletin, but there's no way I'm paying $200, even every year or two. Not least because of that huge incentive to screw the customer over and the complete disregard they've shown to their loyal customers.

myown
14 Oct 2009, 09:45
well said... you have spoken for most of previously happy vbulletin community. what alternative you are looking for now?

lim(x³-5x²) = ∞
14 Oct 2009, 10:08
I think reaction from vb.org peoples will be important, modding community is one of advantages of vb over competitors. If you compare vb and alternative products in current state (like ipb) - difference will be not that big without it. And if modders will stay with 3.x (like xp is still more popular then vista) - it will have effect on vbulletin future...

Pete C
14 Oct 2009, 10:20
Over the past 2 to 3 years there have been tremendous advances in open source forum software, whereas vBulletin have pretty much sat on their corporate backsides and provided very few improvements. Most of the hacks/modifications and board styles that make vB look good are provided by third party developers who often give their work away for free here.

Just where is vBulletin going to be if they price these people out of the market? I for one have absolutely no intention of paying vBulletin/Jelsoft ever again, and I'll use what's left of my existing owned licence to port my work to open source . . . phpBB, MyBB etc.

Has anyone from Internet Brands finished business school? Did they even attend?
They seem to screw up every website/product they purchase.

Precisely.

lostgirl815
14 Oct 2009, 12:13
what about us poor shmucks who bought the blog system already we get screwed over doubly now? gj jelsoft, sucks to be me for supporting jelsoft and buying 3 licenses.

And they were still selling the blog even after they knew we were throwing our money away on it, since we'd have to buy the Suite to upgrade it. I don't care what kind of a happy spin they try to put on that one, I know when I've been mugged.

The best thing was all the free Community input in the form of addons.

And from what I read over there, apparently if we don't upgrade to 4.0 we don't get to come over here and download Mods anymore when our current license expires. And, we can't renew our 3.8 license - we can only upgrade. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, which I hope I am. All my favorite things on my current version of vB are mods that came from here.

Miss Chatterbox
14 Oct 2009, 13:11
I must admit as a newbie here I'm completely confused. I bought the vBulletin 3.8.4 software only a couple of weeks ago and it took me long enough to get my head round that! Now it's all being changed again? I like the idea of a free upgrade but don't understand these new terms regarding licenses. :o

I'd be very greatful if someone could please give me some advice - do I upgrade to 4.0 for free or stay with 3.8.4 until my licence expires? I don't own or need a blog so what are the future costs if I upgrade to 4.0 for free now? Technically if 4.0 is better then can't I just upgrade for free then stick with 4.0 indefinitely?

Apologies if I'm asking stupid questions but just can't seem to wrap my head around all this! :(

myown
14 Oct 2009, 13:53
i think for me vb finished at 3.8...

Llandy
14 Oct 2009, 14:02
I must admit as a newbie here I'm completely confused. I bought the vBulletin 3.8.4 software only a couple of weeks ago and it took me long enough to get my head round that! Now it's all being changed again? I like the idea of a free upgrade but don't understand these new terms regarding licenses. :o

I'd be very greatful if someone could please give me some advice - do I upgrade to 4.0 for free or stay with 3.8.4 until my licence expires? I don't own or need a blog so what are the future costs if I upgrade to 4.0 for free now? Technically if 4.0 is better then can't I just upgrade for free then stick with 4.0 indefinitely?

Apologies if I'm asking stupid questions but just can't seem to wrap my head around all this! :(

From what i gather, you can still stay with 3.8.4 as long as you want. They said something about supporting it until they release 4.2. I'm not completely sure how it works in terms of upgrading your owned 3.8.4 license to the 4.0 one. I only have a leased one, (which expires some time in April) but i can upgrade for free or get the discount for 130$ if i decide to buy the 4.0 suite. Not entirely sure why they made it that way, and if my license will expire in April, if i still decide to purchase the 4.0 Suite..

I've sent vB.com a support ticket and hopefully they will answer this issue.

Edit: Just got my answer from the support

Upgrading my leased license to vB 4.0
-How exactly does this work? I have a leased vB license, which i purchased around april 09. It says i can upgrade too the 4.0 Suite for 130$, but will I then own the license instead of leasing it?


The terms leased and owned are not used anymore. With the 4.0 Suite license you will have access to 4.0 upgrades for as long as 4.0 is maintained. Only with vBulletin 5.0 will you need a new license. The yearly renewals are not needed anymore.

Just thought id post it here, in case it would be to help for anyone.

Miss Chatterbox
14 Oct 2009, 14:10
From what i gather, you can still stay with 3.8.4 as long as you want. They said something about supporting it until they release 4.2. I'm not completely sure how it works in terms of upgrading your owned 3.8.4 license to the 4.0 one. I only have a leased one, (which expires some time in April) but i can upgrade for free or get the discount for 130$ if i decide to buy the 4.0 suite. Not entirely sure why they made it that way, and if my license will expire in April, if i still decide to purchase the 4.0 Suite..

I've sent vB.com a support ticket and hopefully they will answer this issue.

Thank you Llandy for your reply. :)

I guess what hacks me off is I've spent 2 weeks getting my head around vBulletin and building my forum & uploading lots of products, styles etc. and my forum will be ready to go live in the next week or two. So I'm faced with the prospect of delaying release of my forum until the 4.0 comes out or just carrying on as if it's not happening! lol! What annoys me is that all these products etc. won't work on 4.0 so maybe I'm wrong but won't I have to wait until new products are written for 4.0? Also if I do push back the release date so that I can be running 4.0 then when will 4.0 actually be released? Are we talking weeks or months? And how long can I upgrade to 4.0 for free for?

Oooh why didn't I just stay in bed today! lol!

Llandy
14 Oct 2009, 14:19
Well, you should contact vB.com and ask them if u get the free upgrade or not. If you do, then you could always download the upgrade and install it later? Like with you, I've got the latest 3.8.4 version, and will most likely purchase the 4.0 suite in a week or so (so i get the discount). Apart from that, i have no rush in upgrading my forum to 4.0 :)

Miss Chatterbox
14 Oct 2009, 14:23
Well, you should contact vB.com and ask them if u get the free upgrade or not. If you do, then you could always download the upgrade and install it later? Like with you, I've got the latest 3.8.4 version, and will most likely purchase the 4.0 suite in a week or so (so i get the discount). Apart from that, i have no rush in upgrading my forum to 4.0 :)

Oh now that's a smart idea. It does say I get the free upgrade so what I could do is download it and then when all the 4.0 plugins, products etc. become available I could then install it. Hmm that works! I like it! :)

Although I'm also peeved because I spent money on this gorgeous skin for my site and I'm guessing that won't work with 4.0 :(

Thanks for the advice though! You've been so kind and helpful! :)

Llandy
14 Oct 2009, 14:29
Oh now that's a smart idea. It does say I get the free upgrade so what I could do is download it and then when all the 4.0 plugins, products etc. become available I could then install it. Hmm that works! I like it! :)

Although I'm also peeved because I spent money on this gorgeous skin for my site and I'm guessing that won't work with 4.0 :(

Thanks for the advice though! You've been so kind and helpful! :)

Hehe, no worries. Yeah, just give it some time and you'll have loads of good free mods, skins and design for the 4.0 version. Meanwhile enjoy your vB software, it's awesome ;)

I'm sure with some minor tweaking, your skin can be used on 4.0.

The Notorious
14 Oct 2009, 14:31
I think reaction from vb.org peoples will be important, modding community is one of advantages of vb over competitors. If you compare vb and alternative products in current state (like ipb) - difference will be not that big without it. And if modders will stay with 3.x (like xp is still more popular then vista) - it will have effect on vbulletin future...

Very true, and that's not even mentioning the great open source CMSs out there...

amjadz4
14 Oct 2009, 14:34
Here is what the vb.com people had to say. As long as your current license is active you will get the Forums 4.0 update for free (not the suite). When your license expires you will have to get a new one or upgrade it to continue getting updates for 4.x.

Anyways, I purchased the Suite for $130 ... lets see what I can do with it. Funny how the paypal page redirects to the homepage and does not give any indication whether your purchased or upgraded... nothing!

Good luck you all!

feldon23
14 Oct 2009, 14:39
Just in case it's not clear, if you have an Active vB license now, then you are getting a "visitor's pass" to try out vB4 until your license expires. Then it will cost $175 to get a real vB4 license. If you let your license expire, then you are a NEW CUSTOMER for $195.

Then when vB5 comes out in 12-18 months (exact quote from Ray Morgan), that will be another $130? $175? $195?

All those people who were saying that each vB having a fixed price would work out cheaper than $40 ($60?) a year have been proven WRONG. $300-500 for 4 years is more than $40 or even $60 a year.

TNCclubman
14 Oct 2009, 14:42
Are there any truths to the rumour the guys that left vB 2 months ago are starting their own old school vB type forum software?

Llandy
14 Oct 2009, 14:48
Just in case it's not clear, if you have an Active vB license now, then you are getting a "visitor's pass" to try out vB4 until your license expires. Then it will cost $175 to get a real vB4 license. If you let your license expire, then you are a NEW CUSTOMER for $195.

Where exactly did you get that from? Gonna quote vB.com support:

Upgrading my leased license to vB 4.0
-How exactly does this work? I have a leased vB license, which i purchased around april 09. It says i can upgrade too the 4.0 Suite for 130$, but will I then own the license instead of leasing it?


The terms leased and owned are not used anymore. With the 4.0 Suite license you will have access to 4.0 upgrades for as long as 4.0 is maintained. Only with vBulletin 5.0 will you need a new license. The yearly renewals are not needed anymore.

So do you mean that if you use the 'free' upgrade to 4.0 option, you still have to purchase a copy of 4.0 once your current vB version expires? That doesn't make sense.

Miss Chatterbox
14 Oct 2009, 14:50
Hehe, no worries. Yeah, just give it some time and you'll have loads of good free mods, skins and design for the 4.0 version. Meanwhile enjoy your vB software, it's awesome ;)

I'm sure with some minor tweaking, your skin can be used on 4.0.

Cool! You think the skin can be tweaked? That would be brilliant! I'll investigate that option nearer installation time! Thanks again! :)

Just in case it's not clear, if you have an Active vB license now, then you are getting a "visitor's pass" to try out vB4 until your license expires. Then it will cost $175 to get a real vB4 license. If you let your license expire, then you are a NEW CUSTOMER for $195.

Then when vB5 comes out in 12-18 months (exact quote from Ray Morgan), that will be another $130? $175? $195?

All those people who were saying that each vB having a fixed price would work out cheaper than $40 ($60?) a year have been proven WRONG. $300-500 for 4 years is more than $40 or even $60 a year.

So does that mean someone like me who has only just bought the owned license for 3.8.4 would have a "visitors pass" for a year? Because in that case that's quite sweet as by the time my pass runs out theoretically I shouldn't have to wait too long for version 5.0 and so should wait until then to buy the license again.

waynne
14 Oct 2009, 15:21
I have no intention of upgrading to 4.0 until it has been tried and tested. IMHO new versions usually introduce bugs, security holes and the like and it has proved prudent to stay a little behind the crowd and just apply security patches to the old version until a new version gets into it's second release.

The VB4 upgrade pricing structure is just not viable for me I barely cover costs at the moment. I purchased an owned licence so I can closely monitor my costs and the goal posts have now been moved.

The new features of VB4 suite do not interest me. I guess I will stick with 3.8 for a while but my licence runs out in December.

Will I still be able to download security patches for 3.8 when my licence expires? Somehow I think not! No licence = no login at vbulletin.com.

WHY NOT SAY VB4 onwards is a new pricing structure (for new users) but for all pre 3.8 and VB4 budget (non suite forum only users) you stick on your existing contract with owned licence renewals maybe just adding a little more to the annual renewal cost if people want VB4.

IPB or SMF look like my only option as I no longer trust VB as a company.

Forcing people to pay large fees like this at short notice is commercial suicide. Those who can will pay and hate your brand and prepare to move away and those that can't will just have to dissapear.

If someone puts a gun to my head I look for a way to defend myself rather than comply with their unreasonable demands.

MaryTheG(r)eek
14 Oct 2009, 17:13
Seems that they need urgently cash to pay the programmers, otherwise the project will never finish;)

I'm trying to find if there is any ETA for the release. ...or I need to pay without knowing when I'll get it?

Paul M
14 Oct 2009, 17:26
And from what I read over there, apparently if we don't upgrade to 4.0 we don't get to come over here and download Mods anymore when our current license expires. And, we can't renew our 3.8 license - we can only upgrade. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, which I hope I am. All my favorite things on my current version of vB are mods that came from here.
On what do you base this ? If you licence is valid, then you will have access to vb.org.

Paul M
14 Oct 2009, 17:27
I'm sure with some minor tweaking, your skin can be used on 4.0.
Not true Im afraid. The template syntax has changed in 4.0, so it will generally take much more than a few minor tweaks for styles to work on vb4.

kall
14 Oct 2009, 17:40
So does that mean someone like me who has only just bought the owned license for 3.8.4 would have a "visitors pass" for a year? Because in that case that's quite sweet as by the time my pass runs out theoretically I shouldn't have to wait too long for version 5.0 and so should wait until then to buy the license again.
From memory, I started with vB around the time of v3 coming out. That was over 4 years ago. Your license would have expired 1 year in, and you wouldn't be eligible for any 4.x upgrades from that point.

Not that we can use past experience to predict future vB-related happenings any more.

Akademiks
14 Oct 2009, 18:11
what happens to those who already have the blog product? we loose it if we dont upgrade to the suite?

titodj
14 Oct 2009, 18:26
agree this is a complete BS 250 usd for existing customer... arent they greedy for more money ...im selling my license and going with iipb for christ sake

Good luck.... I'm willing to pay $ 5.00 Bucks for your license....
I think you're gonna find them for free in Craigslist pretty soon.
Who will pay for the license of a product that has reach its end of life??


One way or another, they are screwing over existing license owners who bought OWNED licenses.

Exactly!!
Are there any truths to the rumour the guys that left vB 2 months ago are starting their own old school vB type forum software?

I sure hope so...
Thats what happened to TriBox with PIAF...
And needless to say, communities are great... But UNFORGIVEN...

Markos
14 Oct 2009, 18:36
why have the only released a price for the suite and not the "forum only" i want to know

BigDog56
14 Oct 2009, 18:46
Who's to say that in a year from now they won't "change" their pricing policy again and start charging for updates? The problem I've got is trust. For the people that paid for a "lifetime" license turns out to be a lie. Myself, I'm leasing a license, so $130 isn't as bad. But I paid for a blog that will be useless. Think I need to check out my options. "Once bitten, twice shy."

Deadly Stream
14 Oct 2009, 19:01
I find this interesting;

Some screenshots of the vBulletin 4.0 Suite have been released. You can see them here:
http://www.vbulletin.com/index.php?do=screenshots

More will be made available as time permits.

They can't even be arsed to get a substantial amount of screenies up for us to look at let alone a demo. I know not many people are happy about the timescale of this 'presale event' but they know what they're doing. My first reaction to the email is crap I better get buying it and I nearly went through with it but then I thought, they know a lot of people will be thinking this and rush to buy it and save a lot of money compared to the full price, then after the three weeks is up they'll give us the demo or more screenies and then we'll realise how crap the new version is but be stuck with it.

Sod Vbulletin, I'm off I think.

Megatr0n
14 Oct 2009, 19:05
Someone correct me if I am wrong but this vB 4.0 is not the complete rewrite is it?

It's still going to be sometime until the whole base code for 3.x series is rewritten?

veenuisthebest
14 Oct 2009, 19:08
Someone correct me if I am wrong but this vB 4.0 is not the complete rewrite is it?

No, its not a complete rewrite.

Scovic
14 Oct 2009, 19:22
Well, you should contact vB.com and ask them if u get the free upgrade or not. If you do, then you could always download the upgrade and install it later? Like with you, I've got the latest 3.8.4 version, and will most likely purchase the 4.0 suite in a week or so (so i get the discount). Apart from that, i have no rush in upgrading my forum to 4.0 :)

Llandy,
vBulletin 4 is still only in alpha stage, at present, so even if you decide to buy the suite at discount price before the 30th, you will probably not get vBulletin4 for months.
This is the problem...
The new owners of vBulletin are asking us to buy something that is not even released and has no release date.

Thats like going into a shop to buy a television, paying for it and then the shop saying "we will deliver it some time in the future but we cant tell you when"

dutchbb
14 Oct 2009, 19:47
My users don't use the Blogs. There are so many better FREE blogs out there right now, why bother with VB's? Ok, so now you get a VBulletin CMS... VBAdvanced is a pretty nice CMS and it's FREEEEEEEEEEEE.
vbadvanced is a portal, vb suite contains a CMS. There is a (big) difference. I don't know how good the CMS will be, or the suite... but if its good, IF, then paying $130 now is a great deal, believe me. The problem is.. we just don't know if it's worth paying for. They should have a demo, screenshots are not enough to make a pre-sale IMO.

lostgirl815
14 Oct 2009, 20:34
On what do you base this ? If you licence is valid, then you will have access to vb.org.

Like I said, I base it on something someone else posted, and I would be happy if it were wrong. I didn't bookmark the post but the premise went like this:

I currently have an owned license for 3.8. I won't have to pay a yearly fee anymore if I don't upgrade to 4.0. However, if I'm not paying a yearly fee, then technically once my current one runs out, I'm not going to be a "current" license holder, and only current license holders are allowed into vB-only areas such as vB.org.

So, IB is removing the requirement to pay $40 once a year for 3.8 (and under), but by not having to pay $40 once a year I won't be on the list of those who are allowed into vb.org - or into the support area of vb.com.

twitch
14 Oct 2009, 20:44
Yeah, once my current license expires.... mybb here I come!

ndL
14 Oct 2009, 20:44
i didnt get what you are talking about. its 235$ for a CMS pre-sale account, but you say its 130$... i tryed to purchase it, but its stil 235$... i hope you got the point

Linux123
14 Oct 2009, 21:14
This is pretty expensive and I think because of prices people are going to go to IPB. But let's wait and see!

dutchbb
14 Oct 2009, 21:26
This is pretty expensive and I think because of prices people are going to go to IPB. But let's wait and see!
The price for upgrading from active license ($130) and getting the new CMS, not having to pay the yearly fee for 4.0 is a good deal IMO. Can't find a better deal out there unless it's free.

The expensive part is of course when you do not own that active license... they should have warned customers more clearly before removing the old (cheaper) upgrade option. So I would say this is mostly not ideal communication.

mokujin
14 Oct 2009, 21:52
Yeah, once my current license expires.... mybb here I come!

235$ for me is too much, In th Czech I can earn about 1.2k usd per month and have to pay 1/5 to renew vbb.

How said, I see MyBB looks so good :)

Blaine0002
14 Oct 2009, 21:53
As I don't own my own forum and i simply renew my license to code addons for vbulletin, making me buy a completely new license is absurd and i will no longer be coding addons.
Can anyone say 'Goodbye vbulletin community'?

Johan Hiemstra
14 Oct 2009, 21:54
I don't need to see screen shots or a demo, it takes little imagination what it will look like (bad with your default templates ;)) and what it will do. I'm very happy with vBulletin Forums and I trust the v4 and the CMS will be a decent quality product as well. But really, are you expecting me to buy it without having a realistic estimate on the release date? Is it going to be released this year? A 'month' would be nice to know... November after the presales period is over? Or December? early/late? Or do you really expect us to buy something that is going to be released in 2010?

'Force' would almost fit better than 'expect', because it's either pay up $130 now for the full suite or pay at least $175 (for the forums alone) within the next 12 months (when v3.8 license expires). So even if you don't want to the CMS, this deal is for many the cheapest way to get the forums to v4.0 unless your v3.8 is fairly new. At first it seems the upgrade to the forums alone will be free, but that's the product upgrade, it doesn't effect the duration of your current license.

So basically those who stick to 3.8 won't have to pay anything, but those who take this socalled free upgrade will be forced to buy 4.0 or move to another product (as moving back to the 3.8 obviously won't be an option...) once their 3.8 license expires (which costs $45 more than upgrading to the full suite costs now) and those who know for certain they want vb4.0 forums should take this deal now. Let's say my v3.8 expires in 4 months. Why pay $175 then to upgrade the forums if for $45 less I can get the full suite. But isn't 'that' exactly the stain on this who announcement/deal...

I'm sure all this negativity isn't what you hoped for but I really think a lot of it could have been prevented by a. providing a lot more screen shots (come on, how can you not have time to post more of those, make time,delay this pre-sales announcement 10 minutes.., almost makes me think there's nothing else in such a final stage it's safe to post ss of) and b. posting a release date (-estimate). The latter would have made all the difference (between being a great deal and a weird feeling in my stomach.)

Llandy
14 Oct 2009, 23:40
Llandy,
vBulletin 4 is still only in alpha stage, at present, so even if you decide to buy the suite at discount price before the 30th, you will probably not get vBulletin4 for months.
This is the problem...
The new owners of vBulletin are asking us to buy something that is not even released and has no release date.

Thats like going into a shop to buy a television, paying for it and then the shop saying "we will deliver it some time in the future but we cant tell you when"

Yeah, but I sorta have to make a couple of choices, since I currently just have a leased version of vB.

A: Purchase the 4.0 suite with the discount
B: Wait it out and eventually have to pay 295$ for a owned license

I'm sorta stuck on option A, if i wanna save the most money on it, but then again i do not know what I'm spending my money on..

Honestly, i think vB.com has gone about this in a really bad way or I'm just missing something obvious.

--------------- Added 1255563791 at 1255563791 ---------------

As I don't own my own forum and i simply renew my license to code addons for vbulletin, making me buy a completely new license is absurd and i will no longer be coding addons.
Can anyone say 'Goodbye vbulletin community'?

Seems a lot of coders and designers are saying the same. In the end of the day, the community will suffer and so will vB.

robdawg
14 Oct 2009, 23:56
Wow. You people never cease to amaze me. The BEST forum solution out their and you are surprised the company is going to make a buck???

The way I look at it, it is a ONE TIME fee of $195 for the life cycle of 4.0! (all upgrades uptill 5.0 are included) Now they say the 5.0 upgrade is going to come 12 to 18 months so lets break that down on a month pricing structure from high to low. Let's say they upgrade to 5.0 in 12 months that mean the software will cost $16.25/month but if it takes 18 months the software will cost about $10.80/month. It could take them longer to get to 5.0 which means the month break down is going to be even cheaper!

If those fee CRIPPLE you financially, then yes, maybe it is time to move to phpbb.com or ipb.com or whatever floats your boat. The 4.0 upgrade is going to be a better code base and actually save me some $$$ on the plugins that I have to purchase for 3.X (vbseo for example)

Calling 4.0 the next coming of Vista is just retarded. The only thing I am going to call foul on is vBulletin asking for money before we see a finished product. The discount should be extended at least a week or 2 after they convert the vbulletin.com forums to 4.0

SloppyGoat
15 Oct 2009, 01:12
Is there anything anywhere that said my lifetime license would expire at a certain version if I didn't keep paying the support fee, even when I don't need support? I don't recall seeing that part anywhere.

solidlink
15 Oct 2009, 02:14
Over the past 2 to 3 years there have been tremendous advances in open source forum software, whereas vBulletin have pretty much sat on their corporate backsides and provided very few improvements. Most of the hacks/modifications and board styles that make vB look good are provided by third party developers who often give their work away for free here.

Just where is vBulletin going to be if they price these people out of the market? I for one have absolutely no intention of paying vBulletin/Jelsoft ever again, and I'll use what's left of my existing owned licence to port my work to open source . . . phpBB, MyBB etc.



Precisely.
i have to agree... the draw to vbulletin was never because of blog and other stuff in this vbulletin suite.

most people like vbulletin because of the third party mods, large forum owner community for exchange of ideas... and of course Vbulletin's support & updates (somewhat)

besides, the offer doesnt seem enticing enough for existing users to re-subscribe and they are forcing us to take up the offer in 2 weeks.

granted, the new vbulletin suite looks promising and a 1 time payment to ensure security updates for the entire 4.0 suite. however, how can vbulletin license holders be sure that the new software is really so good that third party modifications cannot rival? we already have vbadvanced which is quite a simple free-add on to use and article forums as a free third party mod. the keyword here is "free" if you havent noticed. this huge upgrade fee is something serious to ponder over.

prefer the old pricing and hope vbulletin will reconsider all that we've mentioned...

Blaine0002
15 Oct 2009, 02:19
Wow. You people never cease to amaze me. The BEST forum solution out their and you are surprised the company is going to make a buck???

The way I look at it, it is a ONE TIME fee of $195 for the life cycle of 4.0! (all upgrades uptill 5.0 are included) Now they say the 5.0 upgrade is going to come 12 to 18 months so lets break that down on a month pricing structure from high to low. Let's say they upgrade to 5.0 in 12 months that mean the software will cost $16.25/month but if it takes 18 months the software will cost about $10.80/month. It could take them longer to get to 5.0 which means the month break down is going to be even cheaper!

If those fee CRIPPLE you financially, then yes, maybe it is time to move to phpbb.com or ipb.com or whatever floats your boat. The 4.0 upgrade is going to be a better code base and actually save me some $$$ on the plugins that I have to purchase for 3.X (vbseo for example)

Calling 4.0 the next coming of Vista is just retarded. The only thing I am going to call foul on is vBulletin asking for money before we see a finished product. The discount should be extended at least a week or 2 after they convert the vbulletin.com forums to 4.0

yet in the end you will be paying MUCH more we normally pay.
Its not the fact that its a completely different way to pay for vbulletin thats pushing people away, its the fact that its probably going to double the cost of maintaining a license.

ZapFlash
15 Oct 2009, 03:19
Is there anything anywhere that said my lifetime license would expire at a certain version if I didn't keep paying the support fee, even when I don't need support? I don't recall seeing that part anywhere.

exactly!!!

btw, i was checking in the site, yeah my OWNED board license is expired BUT, my vbulletin blog license is active

barcena
15 Oct 2009, 06:54
Not true Im afraid. The template syntax has changed in 4.0, so it will generally take much more than a few minor tweaks for styles to work on vb4.

Nice, and I just bought a new skin for my 3.8. site.

:erm:

I'm going to remain calm and wait and see whats happen but it doesnt smells good here. Oh and btw ..I'm with vbulletin because of the mod's that people release here for free.

In times were even the biggest companies are lowering down their prices Jelfson and vBulletin does exactly the opposite, mmmm, flash news: in case you haven't noticed the economy (globaly) is going down the drain, how dare you be so greedy?.

Magnumutz
15 Oct 2009, 07:39
Ok, looks like i'll be switching to IPB or even phpBB.
I'm not going to let them rip me off like that!

XManuX
15 Oct 2009, 09:34
I've always appreciated the professionalism of this company, but the way they are marketing vB 4.0 is just a shame.

peterpigman
15 Oct 2009, 11:06
I am guessing that they are in financial trouble, to basically blackmail people into buying something that is not complete and has no release date (not even a guess) suggests a rush to bring in capital. I would be careful paying the upgrade tbh as what will you get if they go bust in the next few months? There are several other platforms which you can convert your VB forum. I think it will show very soon whether this is a dash for capital or just plain greed as once they realize a very large portion of people can't afford such a massive hike in fees they will need to change something or pretty soon there will be a domain holding page where vb.com was.
People saying it is not much of an increase should look at the maths. I have an owned license paid something like $180 for the software and $45 a year or whatever to keep updates means on the old structure for 4 years you would have paid $315 or $6.00 a month (decreasing the longer you own it). On the new structure That would be $285 and most likely $235 a year updates which is $990 or $20.65 a month in other words they have more than TREBLED the monthly fees. Nice work if you can find it.

game.over
15 Oct 2009, 12:26
Project tools as an open source project on vbulletin.org very well i'm lost $50 thank you vbulletin

Welcome ipb :rolleyes:

Lynne
15 Oct 2009, 15:20
8 page topic so far and no response from vB?
And you won't get a response from vb here. You will only get a response from them on their official website - vbulletin.com

I'll repeat what I've said in a couple of other threads about vBulletin pricing/licensing - "Questions regarding pricing and licensing should be asked over on vbulletin.com. vbulletin.org has nothing to do with the business side of vbulletin."

TNCclubman
15 Oct 2009, 15:28
I think someone inside did the math.

triple the price, lose half the customers, still come out with more of a profit.

mitch84
15 Oct 2009, 15:43
no demo, no release date... a big joke I think :down:

Brandon Sheley
15 Oct 2009, 16:29
no demo, no release date... a big joke I think :down:

don't send them more money
problem solved :up:

game.over
15 Oct 2009, 17:08
don't send them more money
problem solved :up:

yes i agree :D

godofwar2
15 Oct 2009, 17:14
VB is making a big push to get customers to update to version 4. There's no option to renew to keep version 3.8.x updated. Customers with expired licenses can not renew to get important updates, like the 3.8.4 upgrade for compatibility with PHP 5.3.0. Some sites (hmmm, which could those be?) are so customized that the admins do not want to upgrade because it would take tons of work to make the plugins and templates compatible with VB4. So now those sites can not get updates for 3.8.x unless they upgrade to VB4, which they won't use and would have to pay $190 now or $250 in 2 weeks. Even allowing $60 renewals for 3.8.x only upgrades without the free VB4 Forum would be acceptable, but VB doesn't allow it! Isn't this a breach of contract? Did VB not say that they provide support for the most recent version and the prior version? Not letting users renew for the prior version is not really great support.... Anyone here a lawyer?

Users are right to be concerned about VB4 considering the big changes in developers and management that VB has had. Asking users to pay $130 (or $190 if expired) in 2 weeks without any demo and just 6 screenshots is ridiculous. This presale event was announced too early and without much thought.

VB took 5+ years to go from VB 3.0 to 3.8, but with the new license of free upgrades for 4.x, I really, seriously doubt that they'll take that long to convert to VB5 - and you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise. I'd say in 2 yrs, you'll see VB5 - that's still a 2X fee increase compared to annual renewals ($250 license vs. 2 x $60 renewal). I guess this is their way to fund the company and avoid the interest rate hikes that banks imposed on business loans due to the economic downturn.

pokesph
15 Oct 2009, 17:24
Its worse.. If you also have the blog (or PT) addons that you paid for along with your owned lic, you are totally ignored and treated just like a leased or expired lic holder.. you pay the same full (or discounted if, IF your members access is still active) price as anyone else.

the whole upgrade to vB4 or nothing is really wrong. we paid for OWNED licenses for a reason and now, that reason has been pulled without any warnings.

Not a happy customer.

godofwar2
15 Oct 2009, 17:26
I just looked at the features list of VB4 at VB.com. They claim to have a "Single Permission System" (exact quote) - LOL, now I know not to trust them. Yeah right, "Single Permission System" - let's see, you have permissions in VB Options, permissions in Usergroups, permissions in Forums, permissions in Blogs, and now you're gonna have permissions in Articles and permissions for CMS. Yep, that's "Single Permission System" for ya! I really, seriously doubt they'll clean up their permissions system with just 1 update. LOL LOL

Blaine0002
15 Oct 2009, 18:09
I just looked at the features list of VB4 at VB.com. They claim to have a "Single Permission System" (exact quote) - LOL, now I know not to trust them. Yeah right, "Single Permission System" - let's see, you have permissions in VB Options, permissions in Usergroups, permissions in Forums, permissions in Blogs, and now you're gonna have permissions in Articles and permissions for CMS. Yep, that's "Single Permission System" for ya! I really, seriously doubt they'll clean up their permissions system with just 1 update. LOL LOL

i dunno.. i think your the only one worrying about that right now xD

hypoharry
15 Oct 2009, 18:26
i dunno.. i think your the only one worrying about that right now xD

Aha i agree :erm:

I shall not be upgrading, me being a student i cant afford $130 before next year when my license runs out.

0 well i guess ill be running v.8.4 for ever :D

BigDog56
15 Oct 2009, 18:28
As much as I don't like what they have done, I'll most likely shell out the $130. I have a leased license, so paying $130 now instead of $180 or $185 (That would have been the amount under the old pricing structure come June for a owned license.) for new license come june ain't that bad. And from what I'm reading at vbulletin.com, Invision has problems too, like the modifications are much more supported over here. You have to admit, vb has some fantastic coders.

forum4
15 Oct 2009, 22:51
Well, I for sure wouldn't buy something that is going to be loaded with issues right away anyways. Everytime I upgrade, I hold my breath for something to wipe out on my forum etc. The last thing I want to do is switch over and have to update every other week.

I think waiting until all of the bug are out and until there is plenty of mods and templates out there is worth it. Sure, if you have a leased license expiring, better go with the $130 option as that is only $30 than you'd normally be paying anyways.

I just don't have time for bugs and such. I like my forum the way it is, and seems like the SEO friendly urls are really one of the only SEO changes they made.

Either way, the waiting game seems good to me. Plus, you know how these companies are anyways. They always end up having sales and such down the road. You don't think they'll jgo a year without any capital coming in?

I'd upgrade to 4.0 if there wasn't something called vBAdvance. I think my members would just be lost without the recent threads box. It seems like in 4.0, there is no CMS whatsoever. So, unless VBAdvanced comes out with a 4.0 version, it will be Suite or no recent threads.

Not only that, but I think dealing with issues, trying to make our templates work and numerous updates will just be simply overwhelming.

barcena
16 Oct 2009, 05:55
Oh the good old times where a platform was just a platform and not a spiderweb.

mitch84
16 Oct 2009, 09:33
if the presale is not a success may be that they review their prices :rolleyes: , but my board is very customised, I think I could not do the upgrade and I 'll stay on vb 3.8 for a big moment:D

Marco van Herwaarden
16 Oct 2009, 11:28
And from what I read over there, apparently if we don't upgrade to 4.0 we don't get to come over here and download Mods anymore when our current license expires. And, we can't renew our 3.8 license - we can only upgrade. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, which I hope I am. All my favorite things on my current version of vB are mods that came from here.
This is incorrect. There is no change in the policy for licensed access to vBulletin.org. As long as you hold a valid license you will have access.

If you have an owned license (assuming you do not move to vB4) then you will remain to have access to the modifications at vbulletin.org.

If you have a leased license, you will have access until your license expires, as an expired leased license does not even allow you to run vBulletin you will not have access after this expires.

mp3u
16 Oct 2009, 12:07
This is incorrect. There is no change in the policy for licensed access to vBulletin.org. As long as you hold a valid license you will have access.

If you have an owned license (assuming you do not move to vB4) then you will remain to have access to the modifications at vbulletin.org.

If you have a leased license, you will have access until your license expires, as an expired leased license does not even allow you to run vBulletin you will not have access after this expires.


Good to know! The whole reason I bought vBulletin in the first place was becuase of the mods and support at vb.org.

The questions that I can't seem to find an answer for though is as follows:

if I buy vb4 as a new stand alone product do I have to give up my owned license for v3.8? I mean if I stick with my current 3.8 forum and purchase v4 can I have two separate boards? (given that I have an 'owned license for vb3.8 and will be buying an 'owned license' with updates for the life of vb4)

If (and it's a big IF) I bought vB4 I would not install it for at least 6 months until the security fixes were done and some critical mods were recoded. So if I buy vB4 and don't install it, am I still entitled to come to vB.org and download mods for 3.8?

Thanks for taking the time to answer BTW!

Marco van Herwaarden
16 Oct 2009, 12:33
Closed thread as per Discussions on vBulletin 4 and licensing (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=225368).