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Ninth Dimension
27 Aug 2002, 22:56
Before you post in the poll, please be sure that you read this text.

This Poll is inspired by, but not in relation to the whole ďTetris/ArcadeĒ Hack problem. The question I ask is because Iím naturally curious as to what other people think in relation to the question Iím about to ask.

What I donít want people to do is use the tetris/arcade problem as a basis for your answer, but rather your own general view of how things should be run here at vB.org.

OK, here is the question ďShould hackers be allowed to advertise paid-for hacks on vB.orgĒ

Please feel free to post comments, but lets not get into an argument about it.

Ninth Dimension
27 Aug 2002, 22:59
I personally voted for yes because I feel that this is a "Hacking" community, for any type of hack, not just the free ones.

NexDog
27 Aug 2002, 23:02
If it's an extraordinary hack, then yes.

Link14716
27 Aug 2002, 23:06
My answer is yes.

Martin64
27 Aug 2002, 23:26
Yeah, I agree with NexDog's words :)

Boofo
27 Aug 2002, 23:27
Sorry, I have to say "no" on this one. It takes all of the fun out of hacking and sharing ideas for me.

zootsuit
27 Aug 2002, 23:30
No, and especially not support...

...that's what your own forums are for.

I should add, maybe a link to where your hack is might be okay in your sig...but not a PayPal link or something...only a link that would take you offsite to your own forum...

Because I am not against purchasing hacks. I have done so in the past and will probably do so again...

But to the "extraordinary" alternative...how do you define "extraordinary" to the population at large here? I think it would be hard.

My 2 1/2 cents...

Ninth Dimension
27 Aug 2002, 23:41
Originally posted by zootsuit
But to the "extraordinary" alternative...how do you define "extraordinary" to the population at large here? I think it would be hard.I'd have to agree with this. what is extraordinary? the author of the hack is always going to think that it's extraordinary.

I think that both NexDog and Martin64 mean they would only BUY an extraordinary hack. :bunny:

Martin64
28 Aug 2002, 00:01
Actually, that's what I meant, I think. I don't think I would buy any hack though, only donate money for one (but not donate to be able to get one, just for the pure support of it :))

I do believe though, that this hack community (vbulletin.org) should be kept free.

All I am saying is if people want to sell their hacks, noone can really blame them because of the hard work they have put into it. But if they want to sell their hacks, they shouldn't sell them at vbulletin.org, so I suppose my answer is "No".

Goldknight
28 Aug 2002, 00:23
Frankly, I aint mind to have some hackers to sell hacks, I have no gripe with it but not at here. Freddie stated that it is vb.org, not vb.com. If any hackers want to sell, do it at their site and PM some of us who is interesting in their works/hacks.

That s why Firefly never advertise anything about his hacks at here and he deserve my respect. As I said, I have NO gripe against selling hacks. Just do it thur PM or at their site. I like John's hack and plan to buy but unfortunately my sweetheart took my credit card for college shopping lately :-(

g-force2k2
28 Aug 2002, 03:47
im not really sure what to say at the moment... but seeing as this whole selling a hack has created a disturbance in vb.org im not sure what to do... at the moment this place is my current home... i have no forum up right now and all i've done is support and hacks for ppl in the past... and to see a hack being sold isn't a bad thing... but when the community gets into such a fight i think that rules should be clearly stated concerning these issues so that we may all know... i've heard that yes it is allowed... and i believe that freddie was one that really hated the idea... last i checked the thread went unfinished and no resolution was brought about (to my knowledge) if ppl stop release hacks and start selling... and eveyone thinks that they can pull something like this? well it better be one hell of a hack with some pretty damn good support... and if ppl think they can start selling their so called hacks for sale at prices and not to many free ones are being released... i can guarentee you all that i'll be the first to code a similar hack and release it free of charge... i don't have anything personal against the selling of hacks... but if its going to hurt the community and my learning (like Boofo stated) then you make sure the hack is damn good... no offense to anyone just my prespective... regards...

btw *cough*iwillmakeabattlehackfreeofchargeinthenearfuture*cough*

g-force2k2

Goldknight
28 Aug 2002, 03:50
----> :bow: to g-force2k2

:) you make my day

Boofo
28 Aug 2002, 03:52
g-force2k2 seems to have a pretty good head on those shoulders. You have my admiration and respect there, g-force. :)

Originally posted by Goldknight
----> :bow: to g-force2k2

:) you make my day

Lanigironu
28 Aug 2002, 04:26
I said maybe. If the hack is clearly very advanced and is very complicated (let's say it has over 1000 lines of code and is optimized), comes with an easy installation (for example an unfaulty install script that does almost everything by itself), and adds new realms of functionality, then I think there is no problem with it being sold. After all, a hack so large and advanced is more or less its own program, and programs can be sold.

But if the hack consists of 100 lines, and adds something very basic, it should not be sold.

Either way I don't think the hack should be advertised at vB.org.

Odil
28 Aug 2002, 05:01
I have to say yes. If it's something that took the person alot of time to make and it shows in the hack, then yes. I would support anyone wh makes something so imppresive to help my forums along. As I see it, a hack is no differant then the creators of vB, they get paid for it so why not the creator of certain hacks.

I think the idea of people doing this for free is great but who cares if someone wants a donation in echange for the hack?

Odil

futureal
28 Aug 2002, 05:17
I think the question is not so much "Should people charge for hacks?" but more specifically, "Should people be able to advertise their for-sale hacks on vb.org?"

My answer is Yes to the former and a resounding No to the latter.

Sparkz
28 Aug 2002, 09:19
No!
The reason I came here in the first place was to share ideas and code with others. This is a hacking community, and all kinds of selling stuff here should be prohibited in my opinion.

Allow a single, offsite textlink in sigs to let people know you have stuff for sale. Don't use the full releases for crap like this, and don't use the 'help me finish' or any of the other forums to sneak in advertisements.

DrkFusion
28 Aug 2002, 14:28
If you want to sell a product sell it as a Standalone product, like FireFly hopefully will with HiveMail, and MrLister with his Gaming Portal, they don't call them hacks, they simply are huge standalone products that enhance your board, in a way, that you can't even say it would be a hack, mainly because of all the major coding it went into.

Want to sell a "hack", call it a standalone product seperate from vbulletin, make a new site to explain it, present the product good, and maybe someone might bye it.

Neo
28 Aug 2002, 14:32
Yes and No.. this place is for open soruce hacks not selling them.. but I also believe that they should be able to since the selling of site styles goes on quit alot and no one complains about that >(

Me being a hacker and selling hacks I would like to see a forum where this can be done.. it has been brought up before but chen didnt do anything about it.

DrkFusion
28 Aug 2002, 14:36
Chen is ignoring for good reasons :)
Chen has that portal thing that he sells, but you don't see him
advertising it, and that HiveMail thing coming soon, he seems to know it shouldn't be encouraged here, yet he gets fair amount of people to buy it.

By the way, you forgot

Thanks
Neo Bunney

after your message ;)

Boofo
28 Aug 2002, 14:36
I still think we would lose all of the learning and comradery we have here now if we started a forum like that. Instead of people sharing and learning from each other we would end up competing with one another for buyers. I am not for it in any way, but that is just me. :)

DrkFusion
28 Aug 2002, 14:37
These forums would just become a place of sold hacks, then alot of us will be forced to use free board like ibf, and the rest whom offer there hacks for free and stuff.

Ryangel
28 Aug 2002, 14:44
Depends on the hack and the buyer. If the hack is REALLY what i wat and you know it takes TIME to code it. Why not pay for it? If not, make your own ... or live without it. Besides the hack would never have surfaced if the hacker didnt code it.

Goldknight
28 Aug 2002, 14:45
Originally posted by DrkFusion
These forums would just become a place of sold hacks, then alot of us will be forced to use free board like ibf, and the rest whom offer there hacks for free and stuff.

That s what I afraid of....Once vb.org here become commerical site for selling hack, I m going to use IBF or something else... or stay with VB and improve my PHP skills to make my own hacks. I m happy that Chen didnt change anything yet at this site, I m thankful that Chen have some brains for that. Maybe that s why he know it and will not do anything about it cuz vb.org will lost big percent of members at here whenenver vb.org become commerical site for selling hacks.

In any case, Chen... many thanks for vb.org as it is!

Also I agree with DrkFusion about standalone and also do it at other site or hacker's forum where we can swing by and look thur commerical hacks. As repeatly myself, I agree witih Freddie's point.. Its vb.org, not vb.com. I aint mind to buy some hacks if I couldnt code it up myself or g-force2k2 is too busy but as long as it is at other site, not vb.org. I decide to buy VB cuz of this vb.org,

Ryangel
28 Aug 2002, 14:48
Actually, maybe there should be a rule about. If you want to sell the hack. Dont publicise the hack. But PM the people interested, and ask if they want to donate/buy the hack... erm .

JUST DONT POST THE HACK IF YOU'RE SELLING IT.
maybe ... argh. This topic is a flame topic. I can flame myself!

Ok, I'm going to stop now....

DrkFusion
28 Aug 2002, 14:53
There are many hackers here, and even if there are hacks like these arcade thing, someone else will probably make something similar, like one person was going to and release it as Open-Source hack

Ninth Dimension
28 Aug 2002, 14:57
Everybody is ashuming that all of the authors on vB.org woud stop producing free hacks, I personally don't think that this would happen.

I'm developing a hack (or rather have almost finished a hack) for vB that I have wanted to do for a long time, it's something that I feel is quite big, and add's a whole new level of interactivity to your site.

I was going to keep it private, but decided to release it here on vB.org anyway, because that is the type of person I am.

While I feel that advertising (not a lot mind you) should be allowed for people to sell hacks, and I also feel that the free hacks will continue to be released.

(look at me, i'm on both sides of the coin).

g-force2k2
28 Aug 2002, 14:59
Originally posted by Odil
I think the idea of people doing this for free is great but who cares if someone wants a donation in echange for the hack?


wants a donation? you mean wants money? theres a big difference between accepting donations and wanting money for a hack...

as stated yes if its worth the money then fine... like i said i don't have a problem with the selling of hacks... more the attitude that it'll bring about and that it has brought about... regards... just my opinion...

g-force2k2

Neo
28 Aug 2002, 15:06
Originally posted by DrkFusion
Chen is ignoring for good reasons :)
Chen has that portal thing that he sells, but you don't see him
advertising it, and that HiveMail thing coming soon, he seems to know it shouldn't be encouraged here, yet he gets fair amount of people to buy it.

By the way, you forgot

Thanks
Neo Bunney

after your message ;)

Heh :p

well then since that is hte case they should dis-allow template mods from being sold on VB since hackers cannot sell/advertise hacks on vb.. if nothing is done about that then I will go ahead and advertise for the hacks I will be selling. Simple concept.

- Neo Mob Boss :smoke:

Goldknight
28 Aug 2002, 15:06
Originally posted by DrkFusion
There are many hackers here, and even if there are hacks like these arcade thing, someone else will probably make something similar, like one person was going to and release it as Open-Source hack

Maybe, maybe not. As g-force2k2 stated it WILL cause chain-reaction so, if 3 hackers starts to sell then 3 will become to 6, 12, 24, 48, and go on so will it still open source spiteful of increase numbers of hackers selling hacks? I doubt it entirely, I aint complain about John.eovie's activities.. he spend lots of time on it but it will be nice if he do that thur PM or at his own site instead of here. Last thing I want to have from vb.org is selling hacks, vb cost bunches of $$ and it is enough.

Daniel, maybe you re right that authors will not stop but who knows? As Boofo stated, we will competing ourselves to sell, that cannot avoid in any state. If anyone want to sell, simply do it at their forum or site.. then PM some of us or make some compromise with Chen about that.

Neo
28 Aug 2002, 15:07
Originally posted by g-force2k2


wants a donation? you mean wants money? theres a big difference between accepting donations and wanting money for a hack...

as stated yes if its worth the money then fine... like i said i don't have a problem with the selling of hacks... more the attitude that it'll bring about and that it has brought about... regards... just my opinion...

g-force2k2

so then the hard work we do to code should be free?? is I make a 10000 line script for a vb addon I should give it for free since you dont like the idea of me selling it???

I think that is not to be rude.. just plain stupid.

DrkFusion
28 Aug 2002, 15:07
Also if there was a forum on vb.org for selling hacks you would know it would be isolated from mainly all other board, no support will be givin in the Support Forums, the author would be responsible for that, and the author has to see to it that every need of the customer is met, no matter how many questions there are the author must support them all, if a person has questions about the hack that was sold to him/her support wouldn't be offered in the support forum, because mainly most people won't bother to support a person who bought a hack from another person, so I guess its the job of the person who got money for it to offer support.

We will see if a forum is set up like this, we will be able to see who can handle it. -________-

DrkFusion
28 Aug 2002, 15:09
Originally posted by Neo


so then the hard work we do to code should be free?? is I make a 10000 line script for a vb addon I should give it for free since you dont like the idea of me selling it???

I think that is not to be rude.. just plain stupid.


Nope he meant that when someone says they accept donations for there hack, it shouldn't be nessecary for donations, he was explaining the difference from donation and "money or no hack" attitude.

DrkFusion
28 Aug 2002, 15:11
By the wayu 10000 line of coding, is alot, but the functionality of the script is what counts....like
"Is the 10000 lines of coding making the script work better, faster, and does it bring more interactivity in a way" kinda thing.

I could make 10000 lines in a script and all it would say is

"Hello World" :p

Boofo
28 Aug 2002, 15:16
Drk, we all know you can't even count to a thousand let alone do "Hello World" with it, too. (At least we all know now that I've spilled the beans). :p:p:p

Originally posted by DrkFusion
By the wayu 10000 line of coding, is alot, but the functionality of the script is what counts....like
"Is the 10000 lines of coding making the script work better, faster, and does it bring more interactivity in a way" kinda thing.

I could make 10000 lines in a script and all it would say is

"Hello World" :p

DrkFusion
28 Aug 2002, 15:28
I can't count to a thousand, but I can count to 10 thousand ;)

Sparkz
28 Aug 2002, 18:57
Originally posted by Neo


so then the hard work we do to code should be free?? is I make a 10000 line script for a vb addon I should give it for free since you dont like the idea of me selling it???

I think that is not to be rude.. just plain stupid.

Feel free to sell it... I don't care... Just don't make this a marketplace.

g-force2k2
28 Aug 2002, 19:34
Originally posted by Neo
I think that is not to be rude.. just plain stupid.

when did i state you can't sell :p i didn't ;) i said its fine to sell as long as its worth the money... but like Sparkz said we don't want this to become a marketplace :P regards...

g-force2k2

TECK
29 Aug 2002, 07:30
no. if you want to make money, open your own site and sell your products there.
even if they are designed to complement VB.

Velocd
30 Aug 2002, 04:54
The five real important factors into deciding if something is worth selling, is time/effort into the product, performance, efficiency, and supply/demand.

A hack is basically a script for vBulletin, integrated to function along with the application. If people can sell scripts, why canít people sell hacks? Simple as that. If somebody sells a hack, and you think itís too expensive, then there isnít much you can do but complain. If others donít buy it as well, then obviously the person selling the hack will have to lower his price.

The issue here though is whether selling hacks should be allowed on vBulletin.org, and I personally think no. Goto a site like http://www.hotscripts.com, and advertise it there as well as your website. ;)

Goldknight
30 Aug 2002, 07:04
Velocd, I like your point and agree with you. I aint care if they plan to sell but NOT here at vb.org period

scsa20
30 Aug 2002, 07:48
I personaly say no simply because I think that it's not right on this site but if it's on like hotscripts.com or a site like that and if someone is going to sell it, they better did a good job and better have a good support, etc... it is okey to let them ask for donations if they liked but selling there hack that's small or crap then no.

DrkFusion
30 Aug 2002, 14:34
Take a look at MetroGamers.com

THe owner to the time to create a site, and beta forums, support forums, and now is coding a members area, he is selling a gaming portal, that comes full with alot of stuff.

He is doing it for the fact that he is going to university soon and he needs the cash anyways, people are still buying.