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https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=296439

vB3 or vB4?
by Biggles64
23 Mar 2013 16:46

Hi All

I am about to set up a new website. I seem to recall that using vB3 was much easier for me to use as an Admin than the newer vB4. I also note that some of the best sites I frequent that use vB have stayed with the old vB3 rather than upgrading.

Has anyone else formed the view that vB3 was easier and more flexible in use than vB4 ... or is it just me? I would be most grateful for others' views on this before I commit to uploading either version to my host server. :up:

Best wishes

Biggles

Brandon Sheley 23 Mar 2013 17:08

I would go with the latest vb4 if I was setting up a new forum, it's a pretty nice setup IMO.

Mark.B 23 Mar 2013 17:09

vB4 is much the same to set up and administer as an admin, and includes many new features as well.

vB3 is End Of Life and will not receive any further bugfixes or new features.

Many sites on vB3 will not move because they have considerably customisations which would take time and money to convert....my own site took three months of work to move from vB3 to vB4.

For a new site you should definitely choose vB4. It's quick and simple to set up, and it's solid and stable.

Biggles64 23 Mar 2013 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark.B (Post 2411795)
vB3 is End Of Life and will not receive any further bugfixes or new features.

Thank you for your comment, Mark.

Correct me if I am wrong but is it not the case that even vB4 is now 'End of Life' and gets no new upgrades or bugfixes ever since vB5 was released?

I must say I feel a bit peeved that I paid for the new vB4 just a year ago and now find myself invited to pay again to upgrade to vB5. I wonder how long it will be before vB5 is replaced with a vB6, with the same requirement to pay again for the upgrade. :mad:

Regards

Biggles :up:

Brandon Sheley 23 Mar 2013 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark.B (Post 2411795)
vB3 is End Of Life and will not receive any further bugfixes or new features.

We've been told that development on vb 3 isn't "dead" yet.

vbulletin 3 development restarting...

Even with that said, I'd still go with the latest vb4.. the back-end of both is identical

Mark.B 23 Mar 2013 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggles64 (Post 2411800)
Thank you for your comment, Mark.

Correct me if I am wrong but is it not the case that even vB4 is now 'End of Life' and gets no new upgrades or bugfixes ever since vB5 was released?

I must say I feel a bit peeved that I paid for the new vB4 just a year ago and now find myself invited to pay again to upgrade to vB5. I wonder how long it will be before vB5 is replaced with a vB6, with the same requirement to pay again for the upgrade. :mad:

Regards

Biggles :up:

vB4 is definitely NOT end of life and development is continuing.

You are "invited" to buy vB5 but you don't have to. In fact, if you're going to run vB4 and have a vB4 license, then buying vB5 would not be necessary unless / until you decided to upgrade your site to vB5.

Chris8 23 Mar 2013 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Sheley (Post 2411829)
We've been told that development on vb 3 isn't "dead" yet.

vbulletin 3 development restarting...

Even with that said, I'd still go with the latest vb4.. the back-end of both is identical

Excellent news and really surprise! Sounds like some serious upgrading ahead!

However, when I try to access the original vb.com thread (even when I'm logged in) http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum...e-done-for-3-8

I got error message:
Quote:


Sorry, you are not authorized to view this page.
Please try logging in or logging in as different user Login or send a message to the admin
So, I just hope this is not early April fools.
By the way, the whole vbulletin.com is so laggy and the design is screwed all around that it's real pain to browse it.

Paul M 23 Mar 2013 22:19

vB3 "development" is not restarting

At least not in the way thay thread leads you to believe, its just taking facts and turning them into fiction.

The reality is that for 3.8.8 Im going to be working on php 5.4 compatability (and a couple of MySQL compatability updates). Thats it.

Ive also been asked to look into what would be required for php 5.5, but thats for some point in the future, and may not come to anything.

ATM, only php 5.4 is on the table.

Anyone who tells you anything other than this is making it up, this 3.8.8 update is currently my project, so Im the one who know whats going into it. :)

Brandon Sheley 23 Mar 2013 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 2411864)
vB3 "development" is not restarting

At least not in the way thay thread leads you to believe, its just taking facts and turning them into fiction.

The reality is that for 3.8.8 Im going to be working on php 5.4 compatability (and a couple of MySQL compatability updates). Thats it.

Ive also been asked to look into what would be required for php 5.5, but thats for some point in the future, and may not come to anything.

ATM, only php 5.4 is on the table.

Anyone who tells you anything other than this is making it up, this 3.8.8 update is currently my project, so Im the one who know whats going into it. :)

I think this is still good news :) I saw other referencing exactly what you said above so I'm not sure what the thread really "leads you to believe" other then what you've confirmed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admin Talk
PaulM just posted that it will only be a PHP / mysql update. This makes sense because this is what is forcing vb3 webmasters to migrate away from vbulletin.


blind-eddie 24 Mar 2013 00:56

Paul, out of curiosity, those of us that are not upgrading to 4.0 or 5.0 will there be an upgrade fee just for 3.8.8 that you mentioned or will we still have to buy vb5 with the option to use the version we want?

Biggles64 24 Mar 2013 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 2411864)
The reality is that for 3.8.8 Im going to be working on php 5.4 compatability (and a couple of MySQL compatability updates). Thats it.

Ive also been asked to look into what would be required for php 5.5, but thats for some point in the future, and may not come to anything.

Hi Paul M

Thanks for that very interesting post.

Let me first say that I have been a vBulletin user for a long time and have always loved it, having looked at alternatives and found them way beyond my capacity as a retired old-timer. I started with vB3 and must confess that I needed a lot of help from support and from other Admins with getting used to handling it. With time and some experience, I was able to mod the site I had and get it up to a reasonably nice forum system which worked well.

However, as time went by and my site hosts upgraded their systems to run later and later versions of PHP and MySQL, I ran into some insurmountable difficulties that I could not see a way around other than buying the rather expensive vB4. I was not happy about having to pay again for the software but took it on the chin. I was HORRIFIED to see that vB4 was, in my view, being relegated into potential obscurity with the release of vB5. I don't think this was a nice way to treat customers and I still smart when thinking about that.

From what you say, and you certainly would know, it seems that I need to take into account whether my host server runs the right versions of PHP and MySQL. I had completely overlooked this fact (old and failing memory, I guess, plus I am NOT a skilled IT person and struggle with anything requiring code).

I suppose compatibility with current versions of PHP and MySQL could be an issue and this may be a good reason to upload vB4 rather than vB3.

I note you have not addressed my title question directly. Is there a sound reason for you avoiding a direct answer?

Kind regards

Biggles

--------------- Added 24 Mar 2013 at 12:14 ---------------

To all responders to this thread so far, my sincere thanks for giving my question some thought and offering your views.

Please allow me to make some further input so that your answers can be more specific.

I begin by repeating that I am an OAP - retired and more than a little physically incapacitated (well, registered as disabled actually). I spend a lot of my time these days on the Internet but I am very far removed from being a skilled IT operator.

When I first bought vB3 - further in the past than I can these days remember! - I was attracted to vBulletin by the claim then made that I did not need any special computer skills to run it as an Admin. Things went well enough at first in that I managed the rather steeper learning curve than I had been led to believe was needed and got my first site up and running quite well.

I then ran into some difficulties with my site host in the US telling me that it was upgrading PHP on all servers. Boy, did that put the cat among the pidgeons! I won't bore you with the detail other than to say I switched to a different host.

Later, I again had the same problem, which is why I felt forced to buy vB4. The rest you now know.

After Paul M posted above, I checked what versions of PHP and MySQL were running on my present host's server - that is PHP 5.3.19 and MySQL 5.1.68. This means NOTHING to me other than that I understand it may mean that some versions of vB may be incompatible and some may not. I truly don't know.

I have a great idea for a new website and I have set up a new contract with my hosts for carrying the site using the new, already purchased, domain names. I have two vB licences, one active and one inactive. I may re-activate the inactive licence or I may just eventually decide to close down my current website and only run the new one - money IS an issue for me. But before I make those decisions, I thought it best to seek the opinion of those more skilled than me. Hence this thread.

Frankly, I am not asking which version of vB others like best. I am only seeking advice on which version will be best in the long term for use by someone as old and as ignorant, computer skills wise, as I most certainly am.

I had hoped to see someone like Paul M, a senior vBulletin developer, offer me the benefit of his expertise in deciding which to use, vB3 or vB4. But I do know from experience that there are many members out there who know more about these things than I will ever know, so all input is most welcome and is, I assure you, greatly appreciated. :up:

As to my comments about how vBulletin treats its customers, please allow for the fact that, at my age, there is a tendency towards being a grumpy old man and having a whinge about anything that reeks of change - especially when it means parting with any portion of the very small pot of moolah one retires with after less than extraordinary employment.

As a final note, if there is anyone out there in the UK who is willing to help me set up my new site for a reasonable fee, I am open to offers.

Kindest regards

Biggles64

Digital Jedi 24 Mar 2013 14:51

Every admin on this forum is at a different level of technical knowledge. There's no need to validate it, because we've all been there. Some of us are still there. It's why these forums exists, so we can get help from each other at those different levels of experience.

As far as you question goes, if you're looking for which will be easier for you, it's not really going to matter. Both will demand the same level of technical skill from you. Other than one having a few more features than the other, and their being a distinction between how styles are edited (and you'll get differing opinions as to which is considered easier to style), they're fundamentally the same as far as administrating goes. So, really, you'll only get people's favorites when it comes to that question.


PHP is the engine that let's users make changes to your websites. It's what makes it dynamic, rather then just a static thing to look at. MySQL is your database, where all your posts, threads and user information goes. It's the meat and potatoes of the website. So yes, you definitly want to make sure your forum is compatible with what your host is running. Just check vB.com for what version of PHP and MySQL need to at least be, and pick the version of vB that's right for your. Again, that's just a matter of choice, but as a recommendation, and as an observation, I'd say go with vB4. It just seems the most stable and most widely supported by 3rd-party add-ons at the moment.

Chris8 24 Mar 2013 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 2411864)
vB3 "development" is not restarting

At least not in the way thay thread leads you to believe, its just taking facts and turning them into fiction.

The reality is that for 3.8.8 Im going to be working on php 5.4 compatability (and a couple of MySQL compatability updates). Thats it.

Ive also been asked to look into what would be required for php 5.5, but thats for some point in the future, and may not come to anything.

ATM, only php 5.4 is on the table.

Anyone who tells you anything other than this is making it up, this 3.8.8 update is currently my project, so Im the one who know whats going into it. :)

I knew this sounded too good to be true. :(

--------------- Added 24 Mar 2013 at 17:52 ---------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggles64 (Post 2411933)

To all responders to this thread so far, my sincere thanks for giving my question some thought and offering your views.

Please allow me to make some further input so that your answers can be more specific.

Frankly, I am not asking which version of vB others like best. I am only seeking advice on which version will be best in the long term for use by someone as old and as ignorant, computer skills wise, as I most certainly am.

I had hoped to see someone like Paul M, a senior vBulletin developer, offer me the benefit of his expertise in deciding which to use, vB3 or vB4. But I do know from experience that there are many members out there who know more about these things than I will ever know, so all input is most welcome and is, I assure you, greatly appreciated. :up:

As to my comments about how vBulletin treats its customers, please allow for the fact that, at my age, there is a tendency towards being a grumpy old man and having a whinge about anything that reeks of change - especially when it means parting with any portion of the very small pot of moolah one retires with after less than extraordinary employment.

Your post mate was very long I doubt most will go into effort to read through it.
But to answer the above. For today vB5 is unknown, vB4 will have further bug fixes and possibly additions and it's descendant of vB3 unlike vB5. vB3 well, they said there won't be any further support but as you can see they decided to fix php 5.4 compatibility so, hard to say but there is a vb.org community support still. For today the most certain support and bug fixes will be provided to vB4 so maybe that should be your 1st choice. (myself I like vb3 and I'm not going to update as 1. I don't like it. 2 It would be almost impossible after 4 years of customization). But if the vB5 will have future and it will be enhanced to the point of client satisfaction then in some point they may drop vb4 support as well.
Just my thoughts... and the conclusion is that nothing is certain.

Paul M 25 Mar 2013 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by blind-eddie (Post 2411884)
Paul, out of curiosity, those of us that are not upgrading to 4.0 or 5.0 will there be an upgrade fee just for 3.8.8 that you mentioned or will we still have to buy vb5 with the option to use the version we want?

I'm afraid I cannot tell you atm.

Biggles64 25 Mar 2013 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris8 (Post 2412001)
Your post mate was very long I doubt most will go into effort to read through it.

Sadly, Chris, I think you are right when you say 'most' will not bother to read my post. It may be more accurate to say that same 'most' cannot focus their attention long enough to read anything more than just a few words, such is the standard of education in the Western World these days. That said, you read through it and have answered it, so there are still 'some' out there who do take the time to read, thank goodness. :)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris8 (Post 2412001)
For today vB5 is unknown, vB4 will have further bug fixes and possibly additions and it's descendant of vB3 unlike vB5. vB3 well, they said there won't be any further support but as you can see they decided to fix php 5.4 compatibility so, hard to say but there is a vb.org community support still. For today the most certain support and bug fixes will be provided to vB4 so maybe that should be your 1st choice. (myself I like vb3 and I'm not going to update as 1. I don't like it. 2 It would be almost impossible after 4 years of customization). But if the vB5 will have future and it will be enhanced to the point of client satisfaction then in some point they may drop vb4 support as well.

Helpful comment, thank you. And it leads me to ask you whether, if I load vB3, is it possible to upgrade it to vB4 at an early stage - like before I have made any mods - without too much difficulty? :confused:

--------------- Added 25 Mar 2013 at 10:52 ---------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi (Post 2411962)
As far as you question goes, if you're looking for which will be easier for you, it's not really going to matter. Both will demand the same level of technical skill from you. Other than one having a few more features than the other, and their being a distinction between how styles are edited (and you'll get differing opinions as to which is considered easier to style), they're fundamentally the same as far as administrating goes. So, really, you'll only get people's favorites when it comes to that question.

Thanks DJ. You have reminded me of what caused me some particular difficulty with using vB4 in that I couldn't make head nor tail of how to change anything using CSS. As I recall, I found it relatively easy to make my own alterations to style code using vB3 but could never work out how to do the same thing using vB4's CSS-based layout.

Ooops! I see my second post is again joined to my earlier one, making the post rather long. Oh dear.

Regards

Biggles


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