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  #31  
Old 25 Apr 2006, 13:01
Princeton's Avatar
Princeton Princeton is offline
 
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Real name: Joe Velez
Originally Posted by pcoskat
I still disagree. Especially if the 'lesser designed' site has a better marketing/pr plan...
this is not about comparing sites ... this is about what makes a site a BIG success
  • content (most of your resources should go into content)
  • good design / usable interface / colors
  • marketing/pr
Just imagine where you would be today if you started with a 'professional' design.

You could have 2 out of the 3 (from the above list); but, 'success' would take longer and it would be harder to achieve.
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  #32  
Old 27 Apr 2006, 04:49
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Freesteyelz Freesteyelz is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Princeton
anyone can create a "design" ... only a few can create a "winning design"
Heh. :banana:
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  #33  
Old 28 Apr 2006, 16:49
pcoskat pcoskat is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Originally Posted by Princeton
this is not about comparing sites ... this is about what makes a site a BIG success
  • content (most of your resources should go into content)
  • good design / usable interface / colors
  • marketing/pr
Just imagine where you would be today if you started with a 'professional' design.

You could have 2 out of the 3 (from the above list); but, 'success' would take longer and it would be harder to achieve.
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I completely understand the point you two are trying to make. What you fail to understand, however, is that I disagree.

My site started around the same time as one with a more 'professional' design, however, we currently have double the members. Mainly due to very good content, excellent site structure and navigation, and very good PR. (By good PR, I mean good articles and mentions in national press)

There's no need to try to convince me of what you feel is the huge importance of a so-called 'winning design'. We'll just have to agree to disagree. k?
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  #34  
Old 28 Apr 2006, 17:15
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Princeton Princeton is offline
 
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Real name: Joe Velez
LOL ... you didn't have a "professional" design if you had to drop it

my 8 year old could make a "professional" design

I agree ... let's leave this as-is.
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  #35  
Old 29 Apr 2006, 04:30
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kriscad kriscad is offline
 
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build the site for 1k, then spend the other 6k on the small ads in the back of CardPlayer Magazine
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  #36  
Old 29 Apr 2006, 19:42
Adrian Schneider's Avatar
Adrian Schneider Adrian Schneider is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Originally Posted by John Diver
Hey,
This is actually a situation I am in right now.

I am putting $7000 towards the development of one of my sites, www.DeuceAce.com

The site is a poker forum mainly with a few extra things, articles, reviews, directory etc. but nothing else major.

The forum isn't exactly new, there are 200+ members and just under 3000 posts, but I would still consider it as very new and will be working on it as if I just launched it.

I am starting to budget what I will use the $7000 on.
I just sent off a payment of $800 to vbulletinskinz.com for a new custom design - I think they are one of the best in the forum design industry.

So..you have just over $6000 to build up a poker forum, it’s a highly competitive industry but I feel there is still space for another, quality forum.

The money can be spent on development, content advertising/marketing or anything you think would help improve and develop the community.

So...what are your first steps and what do you use the money for?
DeuceAce eh... you're famous
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...ht=Deuce%20Ace
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  #37  
Old 01 May 2006, 23:57
pcoskat pcoskat is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Design, notwithstanding, I HIGHLY recommend spending a significant portion of your budget on PR. Not advertising. Not marketing. True Public Relations. By that, I don't mean press releases, either.

Join a good media service so you see what journalists are writing about. A solid mention in an article about your site will be worth more than any ad (or so-called winning design)

Are you an 'expert' in poker? Offer quotes and commentary to journalists on the topic.

Back when my site was just a 'patch work quilt' we were mentioned in USA Today, and the traffic from the article nearly crashed my site. Years later, I'm still getting traffic from the online version of the article.

You might even want to hire a good ghostwriter to write a few articles about your site, and submit them to online poker magazines, or other magazines looking for poker-related content.

Don't JUST go for poker magazines...also consider places like 'airline' magazines. Their readership is high, and many readers take articles of interest with them.

Originally Posted by SirAdrian
Thanks for posting this...very interesting.

Last edited by pcoskat; 02 May 2006 at 00:02. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #38  
Old 02 May 2006, 15:09
John Diver John Diver is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Sorry, but what is a ghostwriter?

I know nothing about the PR side of things but I'm starting to realise that its a lot more important than I thought.

If I can get some attention to the site by methods that isn't actually advertising, some articles on sites with links to the site would be great.

I'm going to take a good look into getting a writer to do articles and include links to my site.

My budget has actually gone up now so I really need to start getting a plan into action.

My new design is almost complete, I just PMed the person that started that thread on SP, that wasn't a design I got from vbulletinskinz.com, not sure if it was just filler text or what..My skin is totally different from that.

Thanks for posting that link SirAdrian, I didn't see that post before

Thanks to EVERYONE that is giving suggestions, I have put a lot of thought into a lot of them and I will be using them
Still looking for any others if anyone has ideas floating around
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  #39  
Old 03 May 2006, 00:14
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Adrian Schneider Adrian Schneider is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
If I had $7000 dollars to invest in a website, I would probably spend most of that just buying an existing one because in 10 months or so you have already made that money back. I guess it kind of acts as a nice secondary income.

Since this is about forums and not just a random site... I would probably start a community site for my local area, because the one we have pretty much stinks... Maybe even something like Craigs List so users can buy stuff. Just looking at the school district marketplace (my father is a teacher), there are a ton of people selling/buying things here.

As far as spending goes: I would build it myself, maybe pay someone to design it, but not 1000$, because most of the great sites have simple layouts (few graphics!). The only thing I can see costing money is hosting fees if it grows large, but the ad revenue should cover most of that.
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  #40  
Old 04 May 2006, 21:59
pcoskat pcoskat is offline
 
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Originally Posted by John Diver
Sorry, but what is a ghostwriter?
A ghostwriter is someone who is hired to write something on your behalf. It's done all the time in the publishing business. If you ever wonder how some authors crank out so many books, or how celebs write their books - many times they're ghostwritten.

In your case, if you're an expert in one or more aspects of poker, but you're not necessarily a writer, you could formulate a great 'outline' of an article, and have a ghostwriter pen it for you. Then submit it to publications with your byline and website.

Regarding PR, best to sign up with a good service (about $75-$99 per month), and keep an eye on the queries that journlists are sending out. When you see one that you can offer some insight, respond. Your quote will typically carry the attribution, "say John Diver, founder of www.DueceAce.com" (or something like that).

It may 'seem' small, but one mention like that in an article in the entertainment section of USA Today will go far - trust me
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  #41  
Old 05 May 2006, 08:04
Kurisu Kurisu is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Originally Posted by pcoskat

Regarding PR, best to sign up with a good service (about $75-$99 per month), and keep an eye on the queries that journlists are sending out. When you see one that you can offer some insight, respond. Your quote will typically carry the attribution, "say John Diver, founder of www.DueceAce.com" (or something like that).
Sounds interesting. Could you give us a few sites?
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  #42  
Old 05 May 2006, 09:11
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gavinzac gavinzac is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Originally Posted by pcoskat
Regarding PR, best to sign up with a good service (about $75-$99 per month), and keep an eye on the queries that journlists are sending out. When you see one that you can offer some insight, respond. Your quote will typically carry the attribution, "say John Diver, founder of www.DueceAce.com" (or something like that).
that sounds good, i run a psychological help & advice site so mentions in articles about those issues would be great.
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  #43  
Old 05 May 2006, 22:10
pcoskat pcoskat is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Kurisu
Sounds interesting. Could you give us a few sites?
The one I've used for years is domestic only.

You might want to check with PR Web to see if they're international (I notice you're in Germany)

There are some VERY good ghostwriters at elance who can write some awesome stuff for reasonable prices.
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  #44  
Old 10 May 2006, 13:29
John Diver John Diver is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Taking a look into this today

Thanks for all the suggestions!
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  #45  
Old 11 May 2006, 06:47
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Smiry Kin's Smiry Kin's is offline
 
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Some one could prob code you your own poker scripts/styles/mods/ and give you support forever for that amount of money..
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