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  #16  
Old 10 Jul 2012, 22:59
John Lester's Avatar
John Lester John Lester is offline
 
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Afternoon

It looks like it works just fine on my test site (4.1.12) but I don't think it will conform with their guidelines. I don't see the difference between having it send an unsubscribe email that they have to wait on, then click again, and having to log in to click a button.

Since I'm still blocked from sending emails I can't test it on the live site, and I still don't have an email client configured for my localhost so I never got the unsubscribe email

--------------- Added 10 Jul 2012 at 23:13 ---------------

Basically it needs to do all of the work once the user clicks the link/button. It can not send an email, or go to a confirmation page (unless there's no other links/buttons to click).

I'm seriously starting to hate hostmonster.

--------------- Added 10 Jul 2012 at 23:24 ---------------

Yep just as I thought, they don't like that one either. I so wish I could crawl through the screen and light their damn lawyers on fire and toast some marshmellows while listening to Black Sabbath
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  #17  
Old 10 Jul 2012, 23:29
kh99 kh99 is offline
 
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OK, well, I can make the "double opt-out" (as it's apparently called when you have to click the email link) optional. I can make it so that you just enter an email address and it's unsubscribed. BTW, you shouldn't have to log in at all for this to work - but I probably should have mentioned that you need to uninstall the other mod first, I think they use the same hooks and values for "do", so if you saw a log in message it may be because they're interfering with each other.

--------------- Added 10 Jul 2012 at 23:30 ---------------

Originally Posted by John Lester View Post
Yep just as I thought, they don't like that one either. I so wish I could crawl through the screen and light their damn lawyers on fire and toast some marshmellows while listening to Black Sabbath

What don't they like about it? Just having to click the email link? So if I can get it to be a screen where you enter an email and press "unsubscribe", and you don't have to log in to do it, that should be OK?
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  #18  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 00:11
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John Lester John Lester is offline
 
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Yes I uninstalled the other one first

They don't like the 3 step process. Step 1 being clicking on the link in the email. Step 2 entering the email address and clicking a button/link. Step 3 being receiving another email with another link/button to click.

They want at most 2 steps. Click on link from email and goto an unsubscribe page, enter email on the page and click a link/button and be done.

--------------- Added 11 Jul 2012 at 00:12 ---------------

So no "double opt outs" or "double confirmation" pages.

--------------- Added 11 Jul 2012 at 00:32 ---------------

Holy cow I'm some sort of stupid. I may have found a ready made answer here at vbulletin.org

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=266142

Depending on what Fillip says to my questions of course I have no idea why I didn't look for an email manger system...I concentrated on an "opt out" system.

--------------- Added 11 Jul 2012 at 00:41 ---------------

I am eternally grateful for all of the time and patience you have devoted towards my problem, and I would be even more grateful if you continued on this quest in case the dbtech mod won't satisfy my host.

I think you should expand the settings that your ported version of this mod changes. These are what I had done in the other mod that my host says won't work for them.


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It disallows vcard download, unchecks all 3 of the email ticks (where receive email from admin is), sets thread subscriptions to "do not subscribe", and turns off pms (to prevent any pm related emails going out).

Of course you don't have to, but I think it would be a popular addition in my nooby opinion

--------------- Added 11 Jul 2012 at 01:23 ---------------

Originally Posted by kh99 View Post
OK, well, I can make the "double opt-out" (as it's apparently called when you have to click the email link) optional. I can make it so that you just enter an email address and it's unsubscribed.
The more I think about it, the more I think this route is the way to go, and what you described here is exactly what is required. I think I'd rather go this route than installing a semi complex mod (at least to me since I don't know jack about email managers ) like the one I listed earlier.

Last edited by John Lester; 11 Jul 2012 at 00:42.
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  #19  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 15:10
kh99 kh99 is offline
 
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Real name: Kevin
I've started to work on this, but I haven't gotten very far - I almost forgot to check this thread to see if you made any progress. Anyway, do you still need this? I only glanced at the dbtech mod, but it looks like it does a lot, so there may still be some use for a mod that simply makes it easy for members to unsubscribe by setting the options.

Do you happen to know if setting each of those user options to No and deleting all subscriptions covers everything? I was actually thinking of maintaining a list of addresses and checking it in the mail send function as a way of ensuring that no email was sent to someone who opted out (assuming they wanted to opt out of all emails from the site).

Edit: you also mentioned moving the user to another group, do you still think that would be a useful option? I thought I'd just start with setting the admin email option to no, then go from there.
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  #20  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 15:59
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Simon Lloyd Simon Lloyd is offline
 
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Couldn't you use the misc.php?do=$userid as the link posted and then in a pluging get the userid (remember i know nothing of JS )
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like this
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that line will find the last occurrence of = and give everything after it. Ok thats probably messed up but it might give you an idea for the link they can click to unsubscribe in a 1 click action if the plugin then has a query to unsubscribe the userid

If you do happen to sort this code out as a one link click (vb3 & vb4 hopefully) i'd like to see it
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  #21  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 16:54
kh99 kh99 is offline
 
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I'm not sure I follow what you're doing there. You wouldn't want a link that unsubscribes someone by userid (and didn't require logging in) because it would be too easy for someone to unsubscribe everyone, for instance.

But anyway, we're talking about a link you click on from an email, so we probably wouldn't want to use javascript. And after more discussion in the thread we've decided that it's enough if it takes you to a page where you enter your email to unsubscribe. Apparently the big problem they had was making it so you have to log in to unsubscribe. I actually appreciate that because sometimes you just don't want to receive email from a site anymore and you don't want to have to try to remember how to log in.
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  #22  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 17:21
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John Lester John Lester is offline
 
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Originally Posted by kh99 View Post
I've started to work on this, but I haven't gotten very far - I almost forgot to check this thread to see if you made any progress. Anyway, do you still need this? I only glanced at the dbtech mod, but it looks like it does a lot, so there may still be some use for a mod that simply makes it easy for members to unsubscribe by setting the options.
The mod won't work as far as my host is concerned because it doesn't handle the system emails which are the only emails I send out.

Originally Posted by kh99
Do you happen to know if setting each of those user options to No and deleting all subscriptions covers everything? I was actually thinking of maintaining a list of addresses and checking it in the mail send function as a way of ensuring that no email was sent to someone who opted out (assuming they wanted to opt out of all emails from the site).
As far as I can tell those settings are all of the settings that would trigger an email. I suppose you could not turn off pms and turn off the emailonpm bitfield, but that bitfield is in the group name=regoptions (vs the group name=useroptions where all of the bitfields we talked about are grouped) which I haven't really fiddled around with yet.

Originally Posted by kh99
Edit: you also mentioned moving the user to another group, do you still think that would be a useful option? I thought I'd just start with setting the admin email option to no, then go from there.
I think it is a viable option as it would be another layer of opting out in my opinion. I had created a user group back in Aug of last year that has all of the settings that would send emails turned off except for pms. I would move those users that sent me a reply to the birthday email asking to be un-subscribed, or if the emails were bounced. Since then I've installed http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=138884 to handle the bounced emals and am loving that mod (well until the host blocked all outgoing emails but that's not the mods fault )

I'm actually going to tweak that user group once we get this working to limit the pm inboxes and such to encourage people who do use the unsubscribe but want to use pms to "double opt in (opt in 1 by requesting a user group change and opt in 2 by having to select (or not) the options to get emails) to cover my butt in case they later complain.

--------------- Added 11 Jul 2012 at 17:39 ---------------

Oh my sometimes I really wish I could afford to get new glasses There is a bitfield for emailonpm in the useroptions group. It's 4096.

I guess the choice depends (in my case for sure) on whether or not you include the changing of user groups. If you include the changing of user groups then I suggest turning off the emailonpm option vs turning off pms altogether.

If you don't include the changing of user groups then i would suggest turning off pms altogether.

Just my $.02 as this is your baby and I'm just along for the ride
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  #23  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 17:40
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Simon Lloyd Simon Lloyd is offline
 
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Originally Posted by kh99 View Post
I'm not sure I follow what you're doing there. You wouldn't want a link that unsubscribes someone by userid (and didn't require logging in) because it would be too easy for someone to unsubscribe everyone, for instance.

But anyway, we're talking about a link you click on from an email, so we probably wouldn't want to use javascript. And after more discussion in the thread we've decided that it's enough if it takes you to a page where you enter your email to unsubscribe. Apparently the big problem they had was making it so you have to log in to unsubscribe. I actually appreciate that because sometimes you just don't want to receive email from a site anymore and you don't want to have to try to remember how to log in.
Ok well it could still be the email address that you tag on so when the user clicks the link in his email something like /misc.php?do=vistedurl&myemail@myaddress.com it will take you to the site, you wouldn't need to log inbut triggering the misc should cause the plugin to do the rest - well thats as simple as i saw it in my head
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  #24  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 17:45
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John Lester John Lester is offline
 
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Just tested the emailonpm bitfield and it works like a charm


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--------------- Added 11 Jul 2012 at 17:48 ---------------

Originally Posted by Simon Lloyd View Post
Ok well it could still be the email address that you tag on so when the user clicks the link in his email something like /misc.php?do=vistedurl&myemail@myaddress.com it will take you to the site, you wouldn't need to log inbut triggering the misc should cause the plugin to do the rest - well thats as simple as i saw it in my head
If that would indeed work as I can envision it in my head, the user wouldn't have to enter their email address as the plugin could populate the email address automatically. That way all they'd have to do is click the unsubscribe button.

However I am the noob here so who knows if I'm even close to being right

--------------- Added 11 Jul 2012 at 17:50 ---------------

Kevin once the method is decided (either the current route you're pursuing or this new one suggested by Simon) and working I really think that adding these options in the ACP would be a great idea. Give the admins the choice on which of the options are affected by the unsubscribe button, which user group to move them to (if that's included), and give them the ability to customize the phrase without having to edit the xml (which is how I do it if the mod doesn't have ACP settings )

Last edited by John Lester; 11 Jul 2012 at 17:51.
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  #25  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 18:04
kh99 kh99 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Simon Lloyd View Post
Ok well it could still be the email address that you tag on so when the user clicks the link in his email something like /misc.php?do=vistedurl&myemail@myaddress.com it will take you to the site, you wouldn't need to log inbut triggering the misc should cause the plugin to do the rest - well thats as simple as i saw it in my head
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought (see post #2), and it's almost what we're doing except that I haven't quite worked out a way to get the email address into a customized email, so we're using a form for the user to enter their email instead. Most vb emails are sent using a phrase but the info like user name and email that are used to customize it are in different variables depending on where the phrase is used, and there's something like 70 email body phrases. Also (and as usual) it's limited by available hooks. I think what I might end up doing is releasing this with the form method, then later adding instructions for a code modification in case someone wants the automatic links.


Originally Posted by John Lester View Post
Kevin once the method is decided (either the current route you're pursuing or this new one suggested by Simon) and working I really think that adding these options in the ACP would be a great idea. Give the admins the choice on which of the options are affected by the unsubscribe button, which user group to move them to (if that's included), and give them the ability to customize the phrase without having to edit the xml (which is how I do it if the mod doesn't have ACP settings )
That's what I'm doing right now. I think it's almost done but I haven't tested it yet. So, probably I'll attach another version here in an hour or two.
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  #26  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 18:38
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Simon Lloyd Simon Lloyd is offline
 
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Originally Posted by kh99 View Post
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought (see post #2), and it's almost what we're doing except that I haven't quite worked out a way to get the email address into a customized email, so we're using a form for the user to enter their email instead. Most vb emails are sent using a phrase but the info like user name and email that are used to customize it are in different variables depending on where the phrase is used, and there's something like 70 email body phrases. Also (and as usual) it's limited by available hooks. I think what I might end up doing is releasing this with the form method, then later adding instructions for a code modification in case someone wants the automatic links.




That's what I'm doing right now. I think it's almost done but I haven't tested it yet. So, probably I'll attach another version here in an hour or two.
Couldn't you add to current phrases $userinfo['email'], or in each of the cron files add your custom misc.php link? just thinking out loud brain farts usually but sometimes there's pearls!

EDIT: this is out of the cron for birthdays
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so you could even do something like
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Last edited by Simon Lloyd; 11 Jul 2012 at 18:46.
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  #27  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 19:07
kh99 kh99 is offline
 
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Yes, that would work for birthdays. That's what I was thinking a couple of days ago, and I told John if he just wanted something to deal with the birthday emails we could throw together something quick, but since then it's become my understanding that he'd really like to have a more general solution (but maybe I'm wrong about that).

Edit: oh, right - the other thing I was concerned about is that I think some email addresses might have characters that require URI encoding before adding the addreses to a url, so I didn't want to just add it directly. (In particular, I believe '&' is allowed in an email name).

Last edited by kh99; 11 Jul 2012 at 19:35.
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  #28  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 19:44
kh99 kh99 is offline
 
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OK, here's the latest. There are some options in the adminCP, probably all the way at the end in the last section. The "require login" doesn't completely work yet so just leave it as "no" (and that makes it pretty much is like the "unacceptable" version anyway).
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File Type: xml product-unsubscribe_link.xml (10.6 KB, 7 views)
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  #29  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 21:01
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John Lester John Lester is offline
 
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Kevin it's not inserting the unsubscribe link on my live site (emails are temporarily restored for testing). I have it enabled and have the double opt out and require log in set to no.

I have "receive emails from admin" checked and am using instant notification for subscribed threads.
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  #30  
Old 11 Jul 2012, 21:05
kh99 kh99 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by John Lester View Post
Kevin it's not inserting the unsubscribe link on my live site
OK, I think we may have our signals crossed - this one doesn't automatically insert anything, it's just a port of the one that you liked but wasn't acceptable because of the "double opt-out" - or was it the one that required you to log in? In any case, did the previous one insert a link? Maybe I messed something up without realizing it was there.
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