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  #61  
Old 06 Mar 2014, 17:13
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katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
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k whatever, just leave, you said.. "I am not gonna waste my time here."

________________________________

I am not someone who tends to join the bandwagon like many did with XF. I looked at what started it and how it continued and what changed. Instead of being blind by drama. I tested XF behavior and found how their staff behaved, and pics are there for prove and they are coming from staff and the founders of XF. I don't need to do anything to prove a valid point, the pictures i shared and the topics over on XF about VB in term of bashing speaks for themselves.



The solution here is don't bash VB while promoting XF on Vbulletin forum, do it on XF because they allow it there (you will definitely feel disgusted after a while joining their bandwagon), it helps their sales $$. We certainly had enough of XF and their bashing on Vbulletin. It is getting old and it is rubbish.

________________________________

Back to vb: I really wish that they renovate their site default style because it needs more work, especially their profile look, and make good use of interactive design and user interface. Something like this is very appealing, especially if integrating social features and a timeline

http://i.imgur.com/Y35g860.jpg

It can be done, it just need skilled web designers and the color could be white, gray, blue and black instead of blue and black. Modern colors in my opinion are now days gray, black and blue but not dark backgrounds. A style like this, can leave an opportunity for many new decent features.

Last edited by katie hunter; 06 Mar 2014 at 20:56.
  #62  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 03:28
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JacquiiDesigns JacquiiDesigns is offline
 
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Back on topic?!?

The thread is actually entitled What do you think about Vbulletin vs Xenforo?
Yet when someone even vaguely shows a pro-XF stance they are faux-shutdown and screamed at by hypocritical twits who obviously have nothing better to do with their time than stalk the XF forums.

How bizarre and utterly strange vB.org politics are at times.


Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
A large number of vB/IB bashers are not customers of vbulletin either.
True. And they should take a seat and shut up

J.
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  #63  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 04:32
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katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by JacquiiDesigns View Post
Back on topic?!?

The thread is actually entitled What do you think about Vbulletin vs Xenforo?

Yet when someone even vaguely shows a pro-XF stance they are faux-shutdown and screamed at by hypocritical twits who obviously have nothing better to do with their time than stalk the XF forums.

How bizarre and utterly strange vB.org politics are at times.

True. And they should take a seat and shut up

J.
Oh, come on, Pro-XF stance is shown here all the time and no one bashes like XF does with VB. Sigh you really love plain lies aren't you.

Btw please please work on your logo styles http://jacquiidesigns.com/ (: i was really disturbed when i read your description then later looked up the samples you shared.



We indeed have an eye for sophistocated design & styling. We are known for taking our clients original project vision and exploding it into a brandable, original, and (most importantly) memorable experience for your users.
Our ideas are unique & innovative, which allows us to create images that will leave everlastingly positive impressions on those who see them. Our designs gracefully adorn the web and make it look better.
You can always start by learning from 99design http://99designs.com/logo-design or look up Deviant Art. Or you can take yourself to a whole new level of web design and take a look at https://www.behance.net/ , https://www.behance.net/search?search=logo

But please don't speak about "sophistocated design", btw it is sophisticated.

Last edited by katie hunter; 07 Mar 2014 at 04:49.
  #64  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 04:44
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JacquiiDesigns JacquiiDesigns is offline
 
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Originally Posted by katie hunter View Post
Oh, come on, Pro-XF stance is shown here all the time. What nonsense are you talking about. Sigh you really love plain lies aren't you

Btw please please work on your logo styles http://jacquiidesigns.com/ (:







You can always start by learning from 99design http://99designs.com/logo-design or look up Deviant Art. Or you can take yourself to a whole new level of web design and take a look at https://www.behance.net/ , https://www.behance.net/joblist
Insult for insult. Mine a bit more relevant than yours of course...
You really are quite something else aren't you Katie.
Thanks for the link push... Yawn.

J.
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  #65  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 04:51
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katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by JacquiiDesigns View Post
Insult for insult. Mine a bit more relevant than yours of course...
You really are quite something else aren't you Katie.
Thanks for the link push... Yawn.

J.
I didn't insult you, i really gave you a good advise (: with really good links. Post these logos on my site in the GFX section and you most probably will receive a harsher critic but in a friendly tone. Just start from these sites to learn how logos are properly designed then you will be better and meet these words you are talking about. But definitely, i am sorry, these are not any where near the claimed sophisticated logo design.
  #66  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 05:04
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JacquiiDesigns JacquiiDesigns is offline
 
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You dig deep into your old arsenal of insults and don't even have the courage to call it what it is!?
You really are a special breed of human eh?
Thanks for caring

Now back on topic: vBulletin, sadly, is a quickly dying product. Development has slowed to a tedious trickle. The flagship product is dismal. Internet Brands has basically admitted to his truth by failing to move any of their own forums to vB 5 Connect, or even vB 4.

In comparison, xF development is booming.

Why this fact makes you the obvious bitter bit of business that you are is mind-boggling.

J.
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  #67  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 05:09
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TheLastSuperman TheLastSuperman is offline
 
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You two stop, please .
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  #68  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 05:13
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JacquiiDesigns JacquiiDesigns is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TheLastSuperman View Post
You two stop, please .
If you insist. I was feeling stalked there for a moment... So.
With pleasure lol.

J.
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  #69  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 15:02
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Originally Posted by Gemma View Post
Sorry Paul M, but I'll stand by my points I made earlier...but that is just my opinion
Huh ?? You quoted a post of Katies, not me.
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  #70  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 15:06
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Paul M Paul M is offline
 
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Originally Posted by JacquiiDesigns View Post
Yet when someone even vaguely shows a pro-XF stance they are faux-shutdown and screamed at by hypocritical twits who obviously have nothing better to do with their time than stalk the XF forums.
Isnt it funny how people do that with vbulletin all the time (go look at TAZ, or the other admin sites) and everyone thinks its fine, but dare to knock XF and its like the end of the world.

Whats good for one is good for another.
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  #71  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 17:49
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katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
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It is because they didn't test XF enough in term of starting to criticize some of their lack of features, XF founders played with VBulletin members' emotions and anger toward VB 5.x, while ceasing a good opportunity.

1. VB 4.x had issues while later 5.x was not a good release at all with many problems.

2. VB ex developers Kier and Mike left VB after like 9 years and went on making Xenforo and claimed that it is better than VB and creating a forum software the right way.

3. Many Vb members were angry and let down by IB changes and bad management and others looked toward a new hope.

4. Kier and Mike knew that this is their opportunity, they wouldn't need to invest in marketing Xenforo because through working with VB, they made so many fans already and would have followers, so why not just use this chance to enter the forum market.

5. IB saw that what they did is wrong and hurting their sales and initiated a litigation against XF with an x amount of claims. Kier and Mike should have expected this.

6. XF kept their members bashing VB and IB, especially VB 5.x while Mike and Kier kept posting several time about the lawsuit and updated their members with how the court ruled in each motion and how some claims were dismissed while others were not. Later let their moderators update the lawsuit progress, as if everyone know about how the court proceeding is and how discovery works, pretrial preparation and so on.

Vb never has done that, although they could have as well. You have one community such as XF who loved to bash while another like VB who didn't allow it. It is unprofessional especially when you are selling a product.



I remember this huge sticky topic on XF about each and every ruling the court made wherein some were not in favor of XF and it made XF members even questioning how the judge presiding over the case was not fair to XF.

7. Case was settled, although the term of settlement were not revealed and that is usually the standard of any settlement but to date XF haven't stopped from bashing VB to gain new sales. They will run toward any VB customer and try to convenience him or her how wonderful XF is while bashing Vb, especially VB 5.x

They will also claim that it is cheaper but by the time a customer buys XF, he will find himself investing into many addons that are already core default features of vb 4.x and will probably spend anywhere form $400 to $800 just to have all his needed addons in.

Many looked at this from a factual eye and accesses true facts while others simply join the bandwagons.

That is why i shared what XF is all about, do you love to be censored just for stating your opinion about XF? I don't think so.

XF founders have no shame in denying it nor fixed their wrongdoing, they believe in "Lets get rid of those criticizing XF so we can grow better" They didn't think about well we have a member of XF who join Xenforo several years ago and she has a certain view that we should address, respect, and listen to. No, instead, lets bash her, and later restrict her profile so she can't post ; lets censor her and let our staff state lies when a VB topic is brought up http://i.imgur.com/TJGpqQY.png

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showp...6&postcount=21
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showp...1&postcount=56

It is wrong to do that. It is wrong to censor critics and it is wrong to allow XF staff to lie and bully members who they might not like. Ashley one of XF Founders, said it is not bully and that XF staff has the right to address a member of the community.

What bully is to find that a member's comments are censored through moderation and deleted later so it doesn't appear publicly, while allowing a XF Staff to spread lie for the sake of sales for XF http://i.imgur.com/TJGpqQY.png



It is surprising that these same XF Staff and founders where whining and appealing to us for almost 2 years that they were always the good guys and the ones who were prejudiced and better than VB and many were drawn into this drama that should have stayed private from the start.

XF was certainly arrogant and lacked good principles, and clearly didn't think about my contribution in the past and only looks at sales # by saying "ok this member didn't buy XF yet, she i no good for us because she criticized XF" the correct path should have been "We've made a mistake by restricting her profile, we should alter this action and allow her to post without moderation because we see that she is interested in XF and might a year later buy it and bring yet another big community to appreciate our product"

It is my choice to wait and see how XF will change, just like it is my choice for waiting to see how VB 5.x will change later.

I won't blindly support XF without seeing that they improve and listen to members' feedback, another major issue which came up, they actually don't listen to your views, they have a very conservative view and path.

You don't believe me? here is Kier's view http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=78018

vBulletin was born of an age when having more options and more data displayed was a desirable thing. People wanted to be able to control minute details of the way they interacted with a forum - or so we thought.

XenForo is a product that debuts with decades of experience already under its developers' belts, and perhaps a degree more maturity in outlook. Our focus with XenForo is on providing a superior user experience rather than piling on new features. We are more of the opinion now that if we believe there is a right or optimal way to do something, we will just do that, rather than providing options to allow people to do it another way.
Don't you find this vision absurd ? They say they want to provide superior user exp but which lacked in features. Read between the lines and look at what XF did actually, using redactor editor instead of CKeditor. Lacks many of VB default features in the admin panel while giving you a simple system that just does the job without proper control.

Did you actually know that when you soft delete a thread using XF, your staff can't search that thread, it gets deleted from their search engine core whereas in VB you can search for any threads even the soft deleted topics. There are many features and things that XF lacked and they aren't bringing anything new either and they won't.

They are there for business $$, they aren't there to provide you with a better experience.

What i am personally looking for is a company with a unique vision and goals to make the forum market a better place by offering key features which provides a better sharing and communication experience. This is what i am looking for, innovations and new ideas, it is 2014 not 2005. Web developing and Web design is advancing and interactive web design is becoming popular every day.

http://vimeo.com/71187136 I want to see VB moving toward a unique approach. Mike and Kier aren't doing that, they are doing another VB version done their way.

I personally have hopes for VB and only days can prove it. It needs some time and we don't know if IB management will change now or later but certainly no one who invest in a business would love to see it sink. People invest in businesses and buy them for improvements not to see them fail and lose $$

If you're displeased with IB managements, i think the appropriate approach is to start contacting them in 100s and initiate an online petition http://www.change.org/ to tell them what is wrong and how things needs to change and you can only do that if many vb customers get together. I personally think what VB needs is a new set of web developers and web designers to join the current team to bring new ideas, and features to VB like that Feed twitter like feature I proposed earlier.

http://www.internetbrands.com/
http://www.internetbrands.com/contact-us/

Their twitter may be ? https://twitter.com/INETtweets

Their management team ? http://www.internetbrands.com/the-co...anagement.html

Robert N. Brisco
Chief Executive Officer

Scott A. Friedman
Chief Financial Officer

Chuck Hoover
Chief Marketing Officer

Just to name few

http://static.ibsrv.net/ibsite/pdf/2...ges%20Beta.pdf
Contact vBulletin:
Joe Ewaskiw
vBulletin / Internet Brands, Inc.
310-280-4539
[email protected]

Last edited by katie hunter; 07 Mar 2014 at 18:25.
  #72  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 18:37
Barcham Barcham is offline
 
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If the founders of XF were former employees at VB, why were they not bound by a non-disclosure/non-competition clause in their contracts? I've been working in the computer business as a hardware specialist for 35 years and such contracts are a standard thing, especially in the software end of the business. If they were bound by such a contract, VB needs better lawyers who would make certain they were enforced. IF they were not bound by such a contract, VB/IB made a serious error and tough luck - deal with it.
  #73  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 18:41
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katie hunter katie hunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Barcham View Post
If the founders of XF were former employees at VB, why were they not bound by a non-disclosure/non-competition clause in their contracts? I've been working in the computer business as a hardware specialist for 35 years and such contracts are a standard thing, especially in the software end of the business. If they were bound by such a contract, VB needs better lawyers who would make certain they were enforced. IF they were not bound by such a contract, VB/IB made a serious error and tough luck - deal with it.
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd sold VB to IB - Internet Brands and this clause in the contract couldn't have not been mentioned in Jelsoft contract. We don't know the terms of their contract.

But yes Kier and Mike use to work for Vb and Kier was the lead developer actually. Just imagine the opportunity they ceased when creating Xenforo, no need for marketing especially when VB 5.x had so many issues. That is why i said they were opportunist, many have missed looking at the entire story from a factual point of view and just bashed VB because of IB miss management of VB 5.x.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBulletin

- On 4 July 2007 Jelsoft announced that Jelsoft had been acquired by Internet Brands, which promised significant investment in software development.

- In 2009, long-time developers Kier Darby, Mike Sullivan, Scott MacVicar and Jeremy Hutchings left the company. Kevin Sours, Don Kuramura, and Ray Morgan took Darby's place as lead developer, product manager, and general manager, respectively

Last edited by katie hunter; 07 Mar 2014 at 19:09.
  #74  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 19:53
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Gemma Gemma is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
Huh ?? You quoted a post of Katies, not me.
Sorry to confuse you!

I'm staying out of this post....I realise now that Katie has issues
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  #75  
Old 07 Mar 2014, 19:54
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JacquiiDesigns JacquiiDesigns is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
Isnt it funny how people do that with vbulletin all the time (go look at TAZ, or the other admin sites) and everyone thinks its fine, but dare to knock XF and its like the end of the world.

Whats good for one is good for another.
It isn't funny at all imo. It's rather tiresome.

What I've noticed in particular though is that the vB dissension is based on what we can most all certainly agree is vBulletin 4 & vBulletin 5 Connect: the failure of the script to live up to license holders' expectations and the failure of Internet Brands to give a damn about the circumstances.

Most XF dissension (as you can see with our dear Katie) is based on what I call irrelevancies: how the XF community is blegh, how the XF moderating team are blegh, how XF developers are opportunists, how her feelings are hurt because of bla bla bla and blegh again.

Let the dissension be about the actual SCRIPTS, not some petty BS that has nothing to do with the scripts.

Yes we know XF is a young script. As such it is not as loaded with bloat as mature scripts like vB or IPB. But there IS vast development taking place.

Unfortunately we cannot say this about vBulletin.

Originally Posted by katie hunter View Post
It is because they didn't test XF enough in term of starting to criticize some of their lack of features, XF founders played with VBulletin members' emotions and anger toward VB 5.x, while ceasing a good opportunity.

1. VB 4.x had issues while later 5.x was not a good release at all with many problems.

2. VB ex developers Kier and Mike left VB after like 9 years and went on making Xenforo and claimed that it is better than VB and creating a forum software the right way.

3. Many Vb members were angry and let down by IB changes and bad management and others looked toward a new hope.

-- BLOOP --
Wow! What a read! A mini-novela, 99% of which has nothing to do with the actual xenforo script and its functionality.

Yes - we get it. Kier and Mike have somehow managed to virtually piss in your Cheerios. You, without purchasing an XF license, ate it up and are apparently mad. But seriously - These types of posts (filled with conjecture and misinformation) make you look quite silly.

What you (apparently?) fail to realize is that vB 4 Gold hit the scene with a dull sizzle-pop! 2 years later - 4.2 seems to have stabilized and usable. Then comes vB 5 Connect, which hit the scene with an astounding sizzle-pop, infuriating those of us who have been longtime vBulletin loyalists, forcing us to find alternative solutions. Perhaps in the next couple years - vBulletin 5 Connect will actually be a usable software? Who knows? I begin to think a lot of folks don't care anymore....

Enter Xenforo, which was a complete from-the-ground-up, fresh rewrite, as opposed to refactored code. It's my understanding that Kier & Mike suggested a rewrite of vB 5 Connect. IDK - I could be wrong here... But fast-forwarding to now: Xenforo is seeing a boom in development - bugs are getting sorted quickly - new features are being added.

Meanwhile at vBulletin: stagnation.

Originally Posted by Barcham View Post
If the founders of XF were former employees at VB, why were they not bound by a non-disclosure/non-competition clause in their contracts? I've been working in the computer business as a hardware specialist for 35 years and such contracts are a standard thing, especially in the software end of the business. If they were bound by such a contract, VB needs better lawyers who would make certain they were enforced. IF they were not bound by such a contract, VB/IB made a serious error and tough luck - deal with it.
It's my understanding that Kier, Ashley & Mike were under a 365 day non-compete clause. Perhaps someone else can verify this?... They developed Xenforo 1.0 during this time, a script which for all intents and purposes has been called the non-vBulletin - a truly functional script, both in terms of innovation and code quality.

IMO Internet Brands/vBulletin lawsuit was absolutely meritless. Their attorneys dragged the lawsuit out as long as possible. The general online consensus is that they were being the big-bully company, trying to shut down the budding script.

vB/IB did make a few serious errors imo - The most glaring is that they spent huge amounts of capital $$$ on attorneys. This money desperately needed to be spent on developers! As a result - vBulletin's code quality suffered, additional employees became jaded and either left or were 'let go'

Still to this very day, IB/vB are OBLIVIOUS as how to put their vehicle back on track to be the worlds leading forum software... Sad day.

J.
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