[Max Taxable]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

But that's what I'm saying. Intention and implication aren't always in tune. If I'm getting that vibe, just imagine what the owner/potential owner of a vB5 board is thinking..

Hey man - your post made it sound like I was insulting the person. And clearly, I was not. And never have.

But, of course people might say that, especially if they're interested in assigning sinister intentions or just muddying the waters. I know you weren't. People might also think that, based on not reading for context, or their not understanding the difference between the words 'ignorant' and 'stupid.'

I can't control either reaction, and don't try to. But I WILL defend myself when accused of calling people stupid, etc. etc.

[Digital Jedi]

Originally Posted by ozzy47

No one is telling anyone not to buy it, as they have to, simply stating not to run it from the get go, or upgrade a live site to it.

Yes it should be discussed on how bad it is, so the person can make a informed derision to run it, not just run it because IB says it's the leading software.

Er, no one is saying not to buy it?

Again, never said it shouldn't be discussed. Just the manner in which it currently gets brought up, I think, isn't the most helpful. Maybe the expression I'm looking for is, heavy handed.

Originally Posted by Max Taxable

Hey man - your post made it sound like I was insulting the person. And clearly, I was not. And never have.

But, of course people might say that, especially if they're interested in assigning sinister intentions. I know you weren't. People might also think that, based on not reading for context, or their not understanding the difference between the words 'ignorant' and 'stupid.'

I can't control either reaction, and don't try to. But I WILL defend myself when accused of calling people stupid, etc. etc.

From a single post, I wouldn't even mention it. Not even a few posts. Possibly not even notice it. Intent is difficult to convey. (And I'm certainly not singling you out.) I'm just referring to the preponderance of posts on the subject, in just the last few days. As a community, I think it's something we should at least think about. Ultimately, you (plural) may decide it's not really an issue. But I feel it's worth mentioning, before it comes to a head.

[Max Taxable]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

From a single post, I wouldn't even mention it. Not even a few posts. Possibly not even notice it. Intent is difficult to convey. (And I'm certainly not singling you out.) I'm just referring to the preponderance of posts on the subject, in just the last few days. As a community, I think it's something we should at least think about. Ultimately, you (plural) may decide it's not really an issue. But I feel it's worth mentioning, before it comes to a head.

The posts in this thread though, don't meet the standards you're referencing.

[ozzy47]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

Er, no one is saying not to buy it?

Correct, no one said not to buy it, because you have to in order to run any version unless you already own a license for another version.

[Replicant]

Originally Posted by Max Taxable

It's not derogatory, it's a American idiom, pardon. Means prime example. In this case, a prime example of one who knows the divorce from this v5 pig you unwittingly married will be too costly and painful to do. You're stuck with it, so you have to like it.

I know. I was joking. Actually, I'm not "married" to VB5 at all. I decided to give it a year to see where it goes. If it's satisfactory after that year, I'll keep it. Otherwise, I'll deal with the divorce.
I'm not one to give up easily. After all, if I gave up on Linux 18 years ago (and let's face it, it was BUGGY), where would I be today? Using Windows or even worse, a mac.

[Max Taxable]

Originally Posted by Replicant

If it's satisfactory after that year, I'll keep it. Otherwise, I'll deal with the divorce.

Research that divorce. Every one I've seen so far has been destructive and costly.

[Digital Jedi]

Originally Posted by Max Taxable

The posts in this thread though, don't meet the standards you're referencing.

I'm not singling out this thread, either. Though, I personally wouldn't totally agree with that assessment.

Originally Posted by ozzy47

Correct, no one said not to buy it, because you have to in order to run any version unless you already own a license for another version.

Perhaps I was too specific with the word "buy", when I mean "get", "use" "upgrade to". I didn't mean to be that specific.

[Max Taxable]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

I'm not singling out this thread, either. Though, I personally wouldn't totally agree with that assessment.

You can provide examples for elucidation then?

[ozzy47]

If someone asks if they should "get", "use" "upgrade to", I will say no, and point out why, and tell them not to do it on a live sit, to do it in a testing environment first.

[Digital Jedi]

Originally Posted by Max Taxable

You can provide examples for elucidation then?

Well, I think we covered that, earlier on. The posts I referred to about inexperience and the uninformed. But I'm being general for a reason...

Originally Posted by ozzy47

If someone asks if they should "get", "use" "upgrade to", I will say no, and point out why, and tell them not to do it on a live sit, to do it in a testing environment first.

And that's great. I'm not saying you don't. I'm not singling anyone out, because I don't think anyone is intentionally degrading anyone. I think it's one of those unintentional side effect things, where it especially comes to the fore when the thread gets sidetracked, and become more of a "prove vB5 is bad/prove vB5 is good" endless debate.

[Max Taxable]

Except, there's no debate. It's bad. Really.

But I'm being general for a reason...

Right, because there's nothing specific here, that meets the general meter you referenced.

Fogging the lenses and muddying the waters is usually the result.

The real question we should be asking? Which IB employee's sock account, the OP is.

[nerbert]

Sounds like we're beating a dead horse here. vB 5 has problems and it's hard/impossible to make mods for it.

I'm upgrading to vB 4.2.3 as soon as my other admin can get away from his busy schedule and I'll see if the new version has all the same problems as 4.2.2. I've already collected documentation on the edits I've made. I just plan on using vB 4 indefinitely. Between my understandong of how vB works, my other admin's superior coding skills and the expertise here on vB.org we ought to be able to keep up with any changes in PHP that come down the road even if IB/vBulletin isn't interested.

We need to pool all the fixes and edits needed and gather them into a single concise file and keep updating it as needed to keep up with new versions of PHP.

What we need to do is form the vBulletin Underground to take matters into our own hands and keep vB 4 running forever.

I'm not going to bother with bug reports any more. I spent a good deal of time tracing one down and it was scrubbed. Hell, maybe I was hallucinating .....

[ozzy47]

I am with you nerbert, vB4 for life, and we defiantly need to keep it going.

[cellarius]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

Well, I think we covered that, earlier on. The posts I referred to about inexperience and the uninformed. But I'm being general for a reason...


And that's great. I'm not saying you don't. I'm not singling anyone out, because I don't think anyone is intentionally degrading anyone. I think it's one of those unintentional side effect things, where it especially comes to the fore when the thread gets sidetracked, and become more of a "prove vB5 is bad/prove vB5 is good" endless debate.

Of course, that tends to happen if people make light of the desaster vB5 really is, by telling people thats just because "vB5 is very new". Desinformation like that sure will not help people to make an informed decision, and people 'round here tend to set that right.

[Digital Jedi]

Originally Posted by cellarius

Of course, that tends to happen if people make light of the desaster vB5 really is, by telling people thats just because "vB5 is very new". Desinformation like that sure will not help people to make an informed decision, and people 'round here tend to set that right.

I presume that's a reference to what I said in a previous thread. I said that because I hadn't realized it had been two years already. Not because I was making light of anything in particular.