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  #76  
Old 25 Nov 2008, 02:12
Sticky1 Sticky1 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by KevinL View Post
The progressive tax system has been in effect for years....there is going to be no change. Stop saying things you have no idea what you're talking about


YEA OK right.....I didn't hear him say that.......

"Stop saying things you have no idea what you're talking about [/QUOTE]"

GOOD idea!!

--------------- Added 25 Nov 2008 at 02:40 ---------------

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi View Post
You know, "spreading the wealth" was an unfortunate turn of phrase in that Obama has used, to my knowledge, only twice. However, his tax plan has absolutely nothing to do with socialism. His plan rolls back the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy (and I'm sorry, if you make more then a quarter million dollars a year, your wealthy) and gives the tax cuts to the middle class instead. I realize that was the McCain party line for the last few weeks of the campaign, but the whole notion of him being a socialist for that very reason is just plain silly.



The whole package is what makes a good president. We judged the last guy on far less then that, and look where it got us.



What taxes has Obama raised exactly? I believe I stated this already, Obama was voted in because of his judgment on all the important issues. Truthfully, that is and has always been the way we measure Presidents being that, barring a guy running for a second term, no one can claim that they have experience being President. Judgment will almost always trump experience, which is why we got Presidents like Lincoln and Kennedy.


So why is it, when people disagree with you, they're sheep? Why is it, when people have a positive view of someone, it's only because the last guy was far worse by comparison. Look, if we were only interested in replacing Bush because anyone was better then that, the country could have gone with anyone else. Instead it went for the guy who by all accounts and by all measure of history didn't stand a chance. Doesn't that tell you something, at least, about the people's measure of the man, rather then you insulting their intelligence because they don't share your opinion?



Are you really under the impression that every neighborhood in the US is a bunch of guys sitting on their front porch being cajoled into voting for the choice of the guy with the biggest personality? This is the 21st century. Most of us don't even know our neighbor's first name. We may not even know what our neighbors look like. What we go by these days is our own best judgment. Again, why malign others because they don't share your opinion?

Also, that notion that Obama's campaign silenced anyone is equally ridiculous. The reason none of these so called "grey" questions where pursued is because they where all debunked ages ago. Only the fringe groups wanted to rehash this stuff, and what credible arguments they couldn't find, they made up. (i.e Obama is an Arab, Obama is a Muslim, Obama is a Space Alien, Obama was born three tenths of a second before Hawaii became a state.) What's sad is no one criticises the media for not pursuing the questionable alliances McCain has made over the years. Granted, they were no more insidious then any of Obama's so called ties, but still, there were no massive outcries to the media to dredge those up.


Don't get me wrong, I can't stand either of them. As a matter of fact, any of them!

So if the Bush tax cuts are "rolled back" those making 45k/yr will pay an extra 3k in taxes, those making 25k/yr will pay 700. in extra taxes. Now if he cuts taxes on the middle class then we will be at the same level or more then we are at now. Hummmm, can you say play on words? PS - He raised taxes on those making over 45k a few years ago in the senate.

Wealthy is over a million/yr. I guess its all where you sit in the poop. So why should the person making more than you pay more by an unequal sliding scale? Chances are he hired you. Chances are people will loose there jobs..........

There were two people that I can think of that started out this way, one in germany and one in cuba! Time will tell, we'll see, although it might be too late by then.

Sheepeople vote because they are infactuated with the person. Reagan, Swartzeneger(sp), Hogan, Obama........ Lets face it, if McCain were younger and acted like he was alive, he would have won. I don't care if you agree or disagree, people are sheep, not all, but most. They follow, they don't leed. If you really think they voted on the issues.....ok....once again, most had no idea of the issues.

Gray questions debunked my butt. Bury the questions is more like it. Your buddy pelosi wants to cut free speech as I had mentioned. Who runs the media?

I wanted to write in "NONE OF THE ABOVE". Unfortunatly, we would have needed 51% to get rid of both!!

Time will tell..!!!

Last edited by Sticky1; 25 Nov 2008 at 02:40. Reason: Auto-Merged DoublePost
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  #77  
Old 25 Nov 2008, 03:13
GSeybold GSeybold is offline
 
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I find it funny that so many people have so many opinions of either side when all we are just conduits(some easily manipulated) for opinion based rhetoric, spun as far is it can be spun, and then some.

I did not vote for either and I'm so glad about this. Although I do lean Republican, I would have voted for Obama if I didn't see Clinton coming(again) and he wasn't so green.

I also find it funny that Republicans are often called war machines yet wasn't it a Democrat who dropped not one but TWO atomic bombs on hundreds of thousands of innocent people incinerating them where they stood, leaving just their shadows on the pavement? "The Buck Stops Here." Yeah right Harry, tell that to the millions of Japanese still suffering from the consequences of a Democrat who used the worst judgment in U.S. history to date. We think Bush is bad? Good god, search Hiroshima-such an evil abuse of power. And if I remember correctly, didn't Clinton spread his war wings while in office as well? Humm and why didn't Truman step in sooner with Hitler? Are Democrates suppoed to be the better humanitarians? Bull sheet! Not at that time in our history tjat's for darn sure.

Humm.. do I feel more safe with a Democrat in office? Ah no! Do I feel safe with Republican in the white house? Ah no! Do I feel safe with an inexperienced unknown man in the whitehouse? Ah no! Were we safe with Kennedy in the white house? ah no! Cuba Missile Crisis. Where we safe with LBJ in the whitehouse? Ah no! He thought the Russian were about to attack after Kennedy was gone and ordered our troops to full alert. What would that be in our alert system today? Code whatever?

MY long point was... It doesn't matter what party is in office. What matters is time, fate, quest of power and stupid humans. <presidents that is.

So pardon me if I don't subscribe to Camelot-ish post Obama win mentality. I can't be manipulated by the media unlike most of the world.

I hope Obama does well.

P.S. My father a staunch Southern Democrat, my mother a staunch Northern Repubican. They taught me to look beyond ideology for the greater good. We haven't done this in decades. I guess we've been to busy wonder how Britney is doing, who's Paris's next BFF or who's the next top model?

Last edited by GSeybold; 25 Nov 2008 at 03:48.
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  #78  
Old 25 Nov 2008, 05:41
lasto lasto is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Amran Iqbal View Post
Iv been told America will crumble n go down soon in comming years as Israel is going to become the next super power and will rule the world for some years b 4 they elect their fake ....... who will be around only for a short while until the real ....... will come down and wipe out the evil ones

we are all going to suffer big time until this day so wake up !

You getz me bro
stop dreaming.......
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  #79  
Old 25 Nov 2008, 06:26
Digital Jedi's Avatar
Digital Jedi Digital Jedi is offline
 
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Originally Posted by lasto View Post
You all want so much from one man - its a certainty that you are going to be disapointed.
There's another one I don't get. What is this "so much" that everyone with an opposing view keeps saying Obama supporters want? A President who creates jobs? A president in touch with times? A President who doesn't fabricate reasons to go to war? A President who can pronounce the word nuclear?

You know, we've actually had a few decent Presidents over the course of our history. I expect Obama to do just a little bit better then they did. Wow, what a stretch.



Originally Posted by Sticky1 View Post
Don't get me wrong, I can't stand either of them. As a matter of fact, any of them!

So if the Bush tax cuts are "rolled back" those making 45k/yr will pay an extra 3k in taxes, those making 25k/yr will pay 700. in extra taxes. Now if he cuts taxes on the middle class then we will be at the same level or more then we are at now. Hummmm, can you say play on words? PS - He raised taxes on those making over 45k a few years ago in the senate.

Wealthy is over a million/yr. I guess its all where you sit in the poop. So why should the person making more than you pay more by an unequal sliding scale? Chances are he hired you. Chances are people will loose there jobs..........
Well, now if you had actually read the tax plan that was on his website for the entirety of the campaign (and still is) you would see that the Bush tax cuts would either be rolled back or allowed to expire. Either way, the plan is that those making a quarter million a year would see higher taxes. The top 5% of the country. The other 95% would see a tax cut.

Now, you can disagree with that philosophy, but Obama and his surrogates stated and restated this ad nauseum for over a year. To suggest he said or has done anything different would just be a fabrication (or not paying attention).

By the way, those taxes that Obama raised? I was wondering if you would actually site the number, and better yet the reasons. The truth is he voted to raise taxes 94 times while in the senate. But you know what, reasons matter. Some of those votes were raising taxes on millionaires to fund groups like veterans programs and Head Start. Others raised taxes on corporations of the wealthy while cutting taxes on the middle class. But predominantly, he raised taxes on the affluent and cut taxes on the middle class. Pretty much directly in line with the philosophy of his campaign tax plan. Now like I said, you can disagree with that. But to suggest he's stated anything different is beyond spin, it's a fabrication.


There were two people that I can think of that started out this way, one in germany and one in cuba! Time will tell, we'll see, although it might be too late by then.
So your comparing the guy who actively campaigned against democracy and the guy who used violence to overthrow his own government to the guy who said he believed that Americans can do anything if they put their mind to it? Honestly, you might as well compare him to Lex Luthor, they have about as much in common.


Sheepeople vote because they are infactuated with the person. Reagan, Swartzeneger(sp), Hogan, Obama........ Lets face it, if McCain were younger and acted like he was alive, he would have won. I don't care if you agree or disagree, people are sheep, not all, but most. They follow, they don't leed. If you really think they voted on the issues.....ok....once again, most had no idea of the issues.
Okay, did you just suggest that everyone is sheep because they follow? So we're all supposed to lead? You lost me here.


Gray questions debunked my butt. Bury the questions is more like it. Your buddy pelosi wants to cut free speech as I had mentioned. Who runs the media?
My buddy? <Looks for missing Pelosi Christmas card>

Okay, which issue was buried? His birth certificate? His heritage (as if it mattered)? His association with William Ayres? What? All of these have been debunked over and over again.


Originally Posted by GSeybold View Post
So pardon me if I don't subscribe to Camelot-ish post Obama win mentality. I can't be manipulated by the media unlike most of the world.

I hope Obama does well.
Not to come of harsh here, but while I respect your right to be cautious, I resent the implication that mine or anyone's admiration of Obama was because we were manipulated by the media. If anything, the opposite was true.

I'm a stay-at-home dad and I would string all the major news networks playlists each day as I went about my day. I heard as much harsh criticism of Obama as I did positive feedback. And I don't lump opinion shows like Olbermann and O'Riley as part of the media, as so many do. Of course opinion shows are going to be biased. That's why their opinion shows. The regular news networks asked all the same questions over and over again and put Obama through the ringer. Most people only saw the little news snippets at the end of the day. And if they said anything remotely positive about Obama, suddenly the other side would scream bias.

Truth is, a non-partisan fact check group tallied up the number of times reporters had said something negative about Obama as it did about McCain. But that's a story that didn't get much coverage because the opposite of what you say is true: folks were already sold on the story that the media loved Obama that it didn't matter if the facts said otherwise.

I also resent the suggestion that because one admires the man that they think he's going to bring about Camelot. For goodness sake, are we as a nation so cynical that the idea that someone might do a good job running the country is so fableish means you got your head in the clouds? There are some sensible people out there, and every so often in our history, they get put into a position to make some real positive changes. It happens. You've got to temper your cautiousness just enough so you don't miss it when it does.
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  #80  
Old 25 Nov 2008, 06:59
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iogames iogames is offline
 
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Man! I admired George Stephanopoulos for years! but he kissed ass from Chicago to DC all the way!
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  #81  
Old 25 Nov 2008, 07:44
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Digital Jedi Digital Jedi is offline
 
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I dont mind George, but I think he asks goofy questions.
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  #82  
Old 25 Nov 2008, 07:53
GSeybold GSeybold is offline
 
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Hey Digital.

Thank you for your response. I like a good healthy, respectful debate

Why do you admire Obama? For his on camera fortitude or his past work? Admiration is something that is earned over time, not scripted to delight an audience. And his past work, well whether your R or D, leaves a lot to be desired. I like positive people and I like Obama's positive spirit but already he has displayed why this cynical nature exist in U.S. politics by promoting people who have shown to be less than admirable people and of course all partisan as of now. (Both Clintons and a few others.) I would feel the same if Obama were a Republican. Why would Obama do this instead of starting out fresh with people less polar and more trustworthy? Because in a nutshell, his campaign was fluffy and said what everyone wanted to hear until he got the job. Now he appears as partisan as all the rest by his actions alone. Now comes the time to scratch backs in return. Surprised? Not in the least. Disappointed? Yes. So far, politics as usual? Looks that way. This is contrary to McCain's history of being quite bi-partisan on many occasions. We need a new start not ushering in ANY of the old problematic people and their past failed agenda. Honestly I'm sure people who voted for him are starting to think this as well.

Do you really believe any of these non-partisan groups are actually truly 100% non partisan? Who do you think funds them? Republican and Democrats. That IS being manipulated by a media outlet of which you cannot and never will be able to confirm with all certainty that they produce legitimate non partisan results. Well you could try actually if they are an NPO and you ask for a copy of their 990. But that may not make you feel to great when you see it in black and white. SO if you based your vote for president off of these non partisan group's reports, more than likely you have been dooped and of course manipulated.

It's difficult to temper my caution when there is a president elect waiting in the wings that has already proven to be less than admirable. Actually to be quite honest, I was hoping Obama would be a breath of fresh air but...

Again, I ask what tangible action(s) of Obama do you admire or is it just his tenacious promising diatribe that you admire? I ask this with absolutely no ill intent. It is a serious question as I may have missed something that I need to educate myself on. << no sarcasm meant whatsoever. Seriously, please think about this for a moment. What are you basing your admiration on? Sounds to me like political posturing and canned rhetoric.

I think this country is done with right and left politics and it's time to move towards a middle ground. I'm sick of liberals. I'm sick of Conservatives. I'm sick of psycho overly religious people and hippy-Cumbiya protesters. LOL

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Despite our different opinion, I'm sure we both have an enormous amount of things to be thankful for. Our children for one thing and I hope yours are healthy and happy. That's all that really matters to me anyway.

P.S. I'm curious why you didn't comment on my Hiroshima analogy? Seems like Democrats never want to talk about this unimaginable hell Truman caused. What's good for the goose..... This is a kettle issue if I've ever seen one, to the absolute extreme. If Harry was a Republican you know Democrats would still be bringing it up in the media. I'm so glad I'm neither.

--------------- Added 25 Nov 2008 at 08:17 ---------------

I would have liked to have seen a Rice/ Lieberman ticket.

Last edited by GSeybold; 25 Nov 2008 at 08:52. Reason: Auto-Merged DoublePost
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  #83  
Old 25 Nov 2008, 08:35
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Digital Jedi Digital Jedi is offline
 
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I'm glad you understand where I'm coming from. I don't think we need talk crazy at each other to make our points.

I've been watching Obama closely for over three years now. My admiration has been earned over that time. Now, I know most people may have known him less then that, but if you asked most people if they knew who they voted for three, four, eight years in advanced, how many do you think would say yes? Most people learn the name of the Presidential candidates the year they're running and they make their judgments based on the judgment the candidate shows.

I have to agree with Obama on this: Words matter. What you say reveals how you think. How you think is evidence of your judgment and your intelligence. Do what the critics of Obama suggest and listen to his words. He makes sense. Something that not a lot of politicians have done in the past. It doesn't matter if you agree with his words or not, what matters is a lot of careful, wise and independent though went into them; he knows what he's talking about. That's the thing. If this guys words where empty, he would not have moved the people he did. He spoke to a part of the populations heart and it resonated with them. Empty words cannot do that.

And as I said, his past actions are service. No, he didn't serve in military like John McCain, but I'm not one who finds community service silly or less of a service. His entire life he's made choices that worked toward the betterment of the community, even if it meant some things he'd like to do would have to be put by the wayside. His record in the Senate shows a concern for whether the middle class where being taken care of, not the rich, not big corporations (I also happen to agree that the middle class are the engine of the economy.) And, again, campaigns are evidence of leadership ability. The ability to manage so many personalities and keep them on message speaks volumes more to me then if he worked with Republicans or not (which he has).

I don't have any reason to doubt the majority of these non-partisan groups until someone gives me reason to. They say things I don't agree with at times, but that doesn't lead me to doubt their varsity, especially if they're respected on the whole. Anything else is just a conspiracy theory, and that will lead you down the dangerous road of doubting everything, even when it is real. (Look at what happened to Mulder, but I digress.)

Now, I don't have a problem with McCain personally. But what I do know is that the "voted with Bush 90% of the time" thing isn't just a party line or an out of context quote. McCain's plans for the country where very much in line with Bush's on the whole, with only a few variations in things like his tax plan and his views on spending. That concerned me.

Again, it was McCain's judgment that most people went by. I personally had a problem when he would very often contradict his statements from one day to the next. It just happened too often. I heard him say things about Sarah Palin like "I'm proud of her" or "She's energized our base", but never once did I hear him say "She will help me govern". Lots of little things worried me about McCain and they added up. And it's not whether I thought he was a good man or a partisan or a whether he was old or not. It was his ability to lead that I, and a good chunk of the country questioned.

As far as promoting less then admirable people goes. Let's face it, Obama can either pick the people who have pretty records or he can pick the people who can get the job done. What matters is who is in the top spot calling the shots. A good leader will not just pick the people with the spotless records. And a great leader will make sure he keeps them busy and out of trouble in the meantime.
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  #84  
Old 25 Nov 2008, 08:39
GSeybold GSeybold is offline
 
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Yes and Hillary really got the healthcare job done eh? LOL Carpetbagger... a scumbag for a husband.... Whitewater and her collegue who "committed suicide" ???? That's a record of accomplishment? Oh and she also voted for the Gulf war under the same pretences as GWB. So how does all of this make her accomplished and a good leader?

--------------- Added 25 Nov 2008 at 08:46 ---------------

Oh and Palin.. All I have to say is.. "what were they thinking? Were they thinking? "

Last edited by GSeybold; 25 Nov 2008 at 08:50. Reason: Auto-Merged DoublePost
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  #85  
Old 25 Nov 2008, 16:46
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iogames iogames is offline
 
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Of this I'm talking about:

(CNN) -- President-elect Barack Obama on Tuesday is expected to talk about what kinds of "cuts and sacrifices" are needed in Washington to rebuild the economy, a process that he says "will not be easy."
As Obama unveiled the team, he called the financial crisis one of "historic proportions" and said that he and the Bush administration are "united" in their efforts to get the economy back on track.
That we already knew, that's why ppl send you there 'ChangeBoy'
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  #86  
Old 01 Dec 2008, 23:09
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iogames iogames is offline
 
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Who can save us?

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks got hammered Monday, as investors bailed out on confirmation that the U.S. is in a recession and indications that it's likely to continue for some time.

Treasury prices rallied, lowering the corresponding yields. Oil and gold prices plunged. The dollar tumbled versus the yen and gained against the euro.

The Dow Jones industrial average (INDU) lost 680 points, its fourth-biggest single-session decline on a point basis ever, according to early tallies. The decline was 7.7% in percentage terms, the 12th worst percentage one-day decline ever.

In a report released Monday, the National Bureau of Economic Research confirmed what many have long believed - that the nation is in a recession. According to the NBER, the official body that calls economic cycles, the U.S. has been in a recession since December 2007.


--------------- Added 02 Dec 2008 at 17:29 ---------------

More likely

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  #87  
Old 11 Sep 2009, 23:35
Amran Iqbal Amran Iqbal is offline
 
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Post

Originally Posted by Amran Iqbal View Post
Iv been told America will crumble n go down soon in comming years as Israel is going to become the next super power and will rule the world for some years b 4 they elect their fake ....... who will be around only for a short while until the real ....... will come down and wipe out the evil ones

we are all going to suffer big time until this day so wake up !

You getz me bro
Hi again

Hope you dont forget my words

I don't know how much people are enjoying their lives e.t.c

What do people make of Obama now ???

Is he a too faced / double standard guy ? , he seems to have done much better than Bush as soon as he came into office if you know what im chattin about.


Don't know how much of the truth you get to know in the world but alittle more longer and you will start to see better

Byeee
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  #88  
Old 12 Sep 2009, 06:04
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iogames iogames is offline
 
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Man!
let me tell ya... I'm now at the end of the world right? and I made an effort and connect to see 9/11 Memorial back home... as far as I know Obama wasn't on 'Ground Zero', so I watched him say a bunch of emotionless words+crackhead-wise+read only speech at the Pentagon!

so I truly believe he lives 'over the rainbow'
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  #89  
Old 21 Nov 2012, 03:07
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Bro_Joey_Gowdy Bro_Joey_Gowdy is offline
 
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Thumbs up 50 States Secede from USA

It seems people in all 50 states wish to secede from the abomination... err, Obama Nation:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,4408092.story

That being said, did any of y'all sign those petitions?
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  #90  
Old 21 Nov 2012, 11:04
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BirdOPrey5 BirdOPrey5 is offline
 
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I'd rather sign a petition kicking Washington DC out of the country than trying to secede from it.
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