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  #1  
Old 01 Sep 2013, 17:34
OldSchoolDSL OldSchoolDSL is offline
 
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Real name: Adam H.
Lightbulb $3,500 lost in add-on development -- My advise to you

I'm going to start off with a simple truth. And that truth is I am not going to name the developer. Why? Because I do not want to go back and forth into a "he said, she said" type argument or intentionally cause drama.

And I'll even close with that thought with my own self admittance that my last comments to this developer was not tasteful or professional, but rather "heat of the moment talk" after learning that they were keeping my money without any return.


So the point of this thread?


My advise to everyone is go with your gut instinct. No matter how recommend someone else or accomplished someone here may seem, go with your gut instinct. This is something I did not do and in the end, I hold myself to blame for not listening to that little voice in my head, which told me maybe this developer is not the right person for the job.

The person in question has burned or disappointed others. There was a large project they had suggest they were going to complete, but never did. But before this action they were highly recommended and a lot of people referred this person to me.

But my own gut instinct told me they seemed "short" with people. By that I mean shot worded and maybe short tempered (quick to anger). Not exactly a "people person".

I dismissed this as a persona trate and figured that I could overlook this as they seemed to be very good with code. And so long as the job was done, I would be happy.

$3,500 later and I regret to inform you all that at this time there will be no alternative Arcade as noted about 1 year ago when I hired this individual.

So again, my advise to everyone is trust your gut. Do not just accept recommendations or praise from other. No matter how well recognized the individual.
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  #2  
Old 01 Sep 2013, 17:56
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BirdOPrey5 BirdOPrey5 is offline
 
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Sorry to hear but I count at least 3 free working arcades out there - ibpro, v3, dbtech... how many more did you need?
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  #3  
Old 01 Sep 2013, 18:04
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ForceHSS ForceHSS is offline
 
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A lot for a arcade when there a working ones out there that i am sure for a small fee could of been changed to what you wanted coded
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  #4  
Old 01 Sep 2013, 22:00
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Paul M Paul M is offline
 
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I dont think the number of working arcades was really the point of this.

Im a little curious however as to how anyone would manage to pay $3,500 and have nothing at all.

Is that what you are telling us ? that you got nothing at all ? I would never, in a million years, part with that amount of money in one go.

I would be paying in installments, only as installments of working code were passed back to me. Anyone who would not agree to that, would not be doing work for me.
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  #5  
Old 01 Sep 2013, 22:21
OldSchoolDSL OldSchoolDSL is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
I dont think the number of working arcades was really the point of this.

Im a little curious however as to how anyone would manage to pay $3,500 and have nothing at all.

Is that what you are telling us ? that you got nothing at all ? I would never, in a million years, part with that amount of money in one go.

I would be paying in installments, only as installments of working code were passed back to me. Anyone who would not agree to that, would not be doing work for me.
It was installments and the working prototype was kept on their end. As development and progress continued so did payments. This was over the course of a year. However one day development stopped and so did communication.

--------------- Added 01 Sep 2013 at 22:22 ---------------

Originally Posted by BirdOPrey5 View Post
Sorry to hear but I count at least 3 free working arcades out there - ibpro, v3, dbtech... how many more did you need?
The development was not for vBulletin, but rather another development. Never the less, the advise applies universally regardless of the platform.
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  #6  
Old 02 Sep 2013, 03:32
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Zachery Zachery is offline
 
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If there was a long term relationship with a developer, they'd be sending me what they had finished. I wouldn't pay more than a deposit 20%~ without getting some working code. Esp not over the course of a year.
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  #7  
Old 02 Sep 2013, 04:40
tbworld tbworld is offline
 
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolDSL View Post
However one day development stopped and so did communication.
I certainly can empathize with your situation, up to the point of making a public statement without including more facts. Deals go wrong and you certainly dished out enough money to feel wronged, but is it a tort? Was he delicit?

Not that it is ideal, but another programmer could pick up where he left off given enough incentive. Sounds to me like you need to find the right programmer and cut him in on the resale of the product or something of that nature. Have a legal third party write out the contract, even though it might never be affordable to enforce it. You never know where a business venture will take you.

Anyway, I wish you good luck and I hope you can work out some alliance with the developer. A little bit of his time working with a new programmer can save you a ton of money. It is well worth to agree to disagree and have a path beyond the dispute for the sake of the product.

Sincerely
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  #8  
Old 02 Sep 2013, 15:33
OldSchoolDSL OldSchoolDSL is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Zachery View Post
If there was a long term relationship with a developer, they'd be sending me what they had finished. I wouldn't pay more than a deposit 20%~ without getting some working code. Esp not over the course of a year.
I was not just shelling out money in good faith. I wouldn't be that foolish.

The was a working prototype to which I could and did actually touch, see, and use. And as the work progressed so did the payments.

--------------- Added 02 Sep 2013 at 16:01 ---------------

To answer a few questions I have received in both here, else where, and in private....

I will not intentionally name the developer or point to hints. Partly because as my advise suggest, I did not follow my own gut instinct and so I feel I have partly, thought by a minority, myself to blame. I should have followed my own gut instinct and listened to that little voice in my head.

However, for those of you who are seeking a developer and do not want to mistakenly pick this individual, as not to completely leave you out in the dark with no life line....

I can make a suggestion and say that Chris Deeming and cclaerhout are wonderful developers. Here on vBulletin BirdOPrey5 is also someone I would recommend. If you need help, I would suggest them. You can tell them I said so.

Yes, there was a working prototype to which I could touch ("feel"), see, and use. As work continued on the developer's end, so did the payments. So no, I didn't just shell out funds on "good faith", but actual work which I slowly saw take shape.

The alternative arcade had many planned features. This included
  • Support for standard v16 and v32 type games
  • Support for multi-player games
  • Self installing games
  • Rating gating
  • Top score
  • Leader board
  • Comments on scores
  • Responsive design
  • Support for html5 mobile web friendly games
  • User permissions / group settings
  • Integration with the "spam cleaner"
  • Game Campaigns
  • Steam Integration
  • Comments / reviews on game

Last edited by OldSchoolDSL; 02 Sep 2013 at 16:05.
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  #9  
Old 02 Sep 2013, 16:07
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Paul M Paul M is offline
 
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolDSL View Post
The was a working prototype to which I could and did actually touch, see, and use. And as the work progressed so did the payments.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and Im sure you realise this now, but .....
I would not pay anything until I had the code, not a remote working system I can simply see, but code "in my hand", that I can install myself and test.
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  #10  
Old 02 Sep 2013, 16:10
OldSchoolDSL OldSchoolDSL is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and Im sure you realise this now, but .....
I would not pay anything until I had the code, not a remote working system I can simply see, but code "in my hand", that I can install myself and test.
It was agreed upon that I would not obtain a copy until the work was finished and I had paid everything that was due.

To my knowledge, this is standard for most developement. You don't recieve anything until the work is completed and you've paid for the final agreed upon price.
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  #11  
Old 02 Sep 2013, 16:15
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cellarius cellarius is offline
 
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If I'm expected to pay upfront, I expect to get something in return, not only see something. Especially since I would want to see the code in order to judge code quality. If I decide at any given point that I am not satisfied or want to discontinue the project, I have the code that has been produced until that time, and the coder has the money for what he coded until that moment.
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  #12  
Old 02 Sep 2013, 16:20
OldSchoolDSL OldSchoolDSL is offline
 
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Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
If I'm expected to pay upfront, I expect to get something in return, not only see something. Especially since I would want to see the code in order to judge code quality. If I decide at any given point that I am not satisfied or want to discontinue the project, I have the code that has been produced until that time, and the coder has the money for what he coded until that moment.
I had seen some of the code, but not the whole package. Given 1 or 2 key files as "examples" of what was going into the whole package. Nothing that could be used by it's self mind you, but enough to see that things were being worked on and that the code was sound.

The developers stance was he was protecting himself from me just taking the work and running. My stance for paying him in installments was along the same lines.

To everything there is 2 sides of a coin. At the time I understood where it seemed he was coming from.
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  #13  
Old 02 Sep 2013, 17:25
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cellarius cellarius is offline
 
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I know it kinda makes me sound like a smartass, and I apologize for it, but how would that arrangement protect anyone but the coder? You pay installments up front and get nothing (substanial) in return. How would it be against the interest of the coder if you got your hands on the unfinished versions? He coded them so far, and you pay him for the work he has done so far. If you take that code, you have already payed for it. He has the money, you have the code. In your model, he has the money, and you have nothing.
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  #14  
Old 02 Sep 2013, 17:47
OldSchoolDSL OldSchoolDSL is offline
 
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Originally Posted by cellarius View Post
I know it kinda makes me sound like a smartass, and I apologize for it, but how would that arrangement protect anyone but the coder? You pay installments up front and get nothing (substanial) in return. How would it be against the interest of the coder if you got your hands on the unfinished versions? He coded them so far, and you pay him for the work he has done so far. If you take that code, you have already payed for it. He has the money, you have the code. In your model, he has the money, and you have nothing.
Because the agreed upon price was greater.

Which comes first the chicken or the egg.... The product or the payment.

From his arguement, I can see someone being worried if they gave the customer X package & not getting paid for it. Just as I can see it from where I stand now, paying and not getting X package.

Somewhere, someone has to go first. In either case that individual runs the risk of being scammed.

Last edited by OldSchoolDSL; 02 Sep 2013 at 17:53.
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  #15  
Old 02 Sep 2013, 21:57
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Lynne Lynne is offline
 
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I'm sorry to hear you got burned.
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