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  #1  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 00:20
akz645 akz645 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Question Can Trail & Cloud Users Download Modifications/View Code?

http://www.vbulletin.com/en/vb4-trial/
1) How long does trail last?
2) Once the trail period is over, what happens?
3) Can they ask for an extension?
4) Can trail users download mods?
5) Can trail users view codes?
For 4 and 5: I think they should be allowed to do both, if they can't already.
Maybe they should pay a small fee to download mods for X days/ however long their trail version has left? I don't think they should be allowed to get support/post on the forum though, aside from the pre-sale section & wherever else unlicensed members can currently post on this website.
If they can't legitimately download mods without having to pay the full fee, they're pretty much forced to use warez websites if they want to test a mod. I've also seen warez sites charge (premium) to download mods and to get priority support for somebody else to download for them.

http://www.vbulletin.com/en/vbulletin-cloud/
I'd like to ask about vbulletin cloud too.
3) Can you install mods on that?
4) Are you given a FTP account?

One of the main reasons I brought vbulletin over another board was because of the many mods. However, I was worried whether or not mods would work.
I never needed to use the trail version because another administrator downloaded and installed all the mods I needed on his website and so I tested out on there. If he didn't do that, I'd never have brought vbulletin.

One final thing about modifications:
Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
As far as removing mods, anyone has the right to ask for their modifications to be removed if they so wish, thats not going to change, nor should it. We have no rights to demand that peoples work be available forever.
Can't vbulletin make a disclaimer, saying whatever mods is posted on this website, will remain on this website indefinitely.
Therefore members who post modifications have to agree to those terms?
Hence vbulletin would have the right to never remove modifications that have been posted, if they don't want to.

P.S: Really sorry if this question has been asked before.
I tried searching but I couldn't find the answer to all these questions and I'm unsure what your latest terms and conditions are on this matter.
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  #2  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 00:40
ozzy47's Avatar
ozzy47 ozzy47 is offline
 
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There would be no reason to let cloud users access to mods, as they can not use them anyway.

Also, what would give this site the right to keep any mods I posted? I wrote them, and own them. They are shared here for free.
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  #3  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 00:47
akz645 akz645 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ozzy47 View Post
There would be no reason to let cloud users access to mods, as they can not use them anyway.
Thanks for that. I didn't know.

Originally Posted by ozzy47 View Post
Also, what would give this site the right to keep any mods I posted? I wrote them, and own them. They are shared here for free.
They obviously can't go back on what's already been removed to the graveyard without the authors consent.

I'm talking about the future.
If they make a disclaimer now, every time somebody posts a modification, they will know what they're getting into.
I'm not saying vbulletin shouldn't remove it, but if they kept a disclaimer OR kept it in the terms and condition when using this website, they wouldn't have to move a modification to the graveyard, if they didn't want to.
That's my point. As the owner of a modification, you would be agreeing to the terms and conditions by posting that mod, hence that would be your fault if at a later time you want it removed, but can't if the site owners don't want it removed.
Ofcourse, you wouldn't be obliged to support/update that modification if you didn't want to.
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  #4  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 00:51
ozzy47's Avatar
ozzy47 ozzy47 is offline
 
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But that is a mute point. The author of the mod owns the code, and shares it here freely. If they no longer want it available on here, that is their decision. No one has their right to publish their content without consent.
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  #5  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 00:53
akz645 akz645 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ozzy47 View Post
But that is a mute point. The author of the mod owns the code, and shares it here freely. If they no longer want it available on here, that is their decision. No one has their right to publish their content without consent.
They wouldn't be publishing it.
They'd only be maintaining it/ not allowing you to remove it.
You as the owner would be the one who has published it, agreeing to the terms and conditions.

Under UK or US law, can you point me to a law that states otherwise?
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  #6  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 00:56
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ozzy47 ozzy47 is offline
 
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If I wrote the mod, I control the rights to where it is and is not published. No professional developer in their right mind would post their work on here and not be in control of it could not be removed. So then this site would not be needed, and you would not have as many mods to use, as a developer may not want to open their own site to give people access to free stuff.
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  #7  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 01:01
akz645 akz645 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ozzy47 View Post
If I wrote the mod, I control the rights to where it is and is not published. No professional developer in their right mind would post their work on here and not be in control of it could not be removed. So then this site would not be needed, and you would not have as many mods to use, as a developer may not want to open their own site to give people access to free stuff.
This may or may not be true.
However it is a good argument for why they shouldn't implement such a disclaimer into their terms and condition.

Just from a legal standpoint (to the best of my knowledge), if you agreed to such terms and conditions set by vbulletin, you couldn't demand to remove the modification on a later date after already publishing.
If it was just in the terms and conditions (very few people read), you'd probably never know until the time comes/ if you read somebody else complain on a thread.
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  #8  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 01:06
ozzy47's Avatar
ozzy47 ozzy47 is offline
 
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It is just stupid for anyone to implement something like that at all.

I'll tell us what, go take some collage courses, or spend a year learning CSS, HTML, PHP and some bootstrap on your own time. Then spend about three months creating a complex mod, then tell me how you feel about someone else controlling if your mod is published when you no longer want it to be.
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  #9  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 01:12
akz645 akz645 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ozzy47 View Post
It is just stupid for anyone to implement something like that at all.

I'll tell us what, go take some collage courses, or spend a year learning CSS, HTML, PHP and some bootstrap. Then spend about three months creating a complex mod, then tell me how you feel about someone else controlling if your mod is published when you no longer want it to be.
If I created a complex mod, I wouldn't put it up for free.
Anything I put up for free, I wouldn't ever remove unless there was a security risk.
If I decided at a later date to move everything to my own website, I'd just link the original post to my own website and say I'm no longer updating on here.

Warez sites would upload your product. Lets be real, underground warez sites are never going to take down a product because you or vbulletin ask them too.
If somebody removed a product that works perfectly fine from here, to their website and lets say their website gets taken down for whatever reason. The only people who have that product available to download is a warez website.
As the creator, you wouldn't know whether somebody got that product from this website or a warez website. And you can't go around asking all boards to remove your modification, which you made available for free.

Hence I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, for such a rule to be implemented.

If I ever had the power to implement such a disclaimer:
If many coders who still have their products on this website disagree with me. Sure, I'd remove it.

Adding such a disclaimer gives vbulletin admins the power to decide. Hence they can treat each request of removal, on a case by case scenario. Perhaps as my example above demonstrates, if the only way to get a copy of that modification is via a warez site, the admin may decide to make that product available to download here if they can't get a hold of the creator.

Last edited by akz645; 11 Sep 2015 at 01:23.
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  #10  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 01:23
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ozzy47 ozzy47 is offline
 
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Ok, just get them from wares sites then, but ask them on that site when you get hacked from installing the mod.
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  #11  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 01:28
akz645 akz645 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ozzy47 View Post
Ok, just get them from wares sites then, but ask them on that site when you get hacked from installing the mod.
Another reason that supports vbulletin having such a disclaimer.

If somebody was desperate for that mod, that's a risk they'd have to take if they wanted to obtain the product for free (assuming that's the only way to obtain the product).
I've actually compared warez downloads to downloads from here, I haven't found a single product that's been interfered with at all. Although my sample size is fairly small, as I don't need to visit warez website and therefore it's a waste of my time to be checking anymore than I have already done so.

Last edited by akz645; 11 Sep 2015 at 01:33.
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  #12  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 03:22
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Lynne Lynne is offline
 
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We would never have that sort of disclaimer here. I think every one of us that has ever run, or helped to run, this site (and we are run by volunteers) has released mods. We wouldn't release our mods if we could never pull them when we wanted to. Some disclaimer is just not going to happen here.
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  #13  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 04:40
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TheLastSuperman TheLastSuperman is offline
 
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I believe Ozzy summed up what I would have said before I could even attempt it i.e. no use for cloud users as they can't use them and if using a trial that will expire whats the point? I mean to test sure but why go through all that trouble instead of simply asking or calling them to inquire directly? If they refer you to vbulletin.org on the phone for modifications and customization questions then ask here.

There are two pre-sales forums for use, one on vbulletin.com and a different one on vbulletin.org:
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum...ales-questions
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=26

The reason two exist, is so that you can ask generic pre-sales questions on vbulletin.com, if you wish to modify your site or do something outside the box then its actually better to ask here, so that is why there is similarly named forums yet each has different threads and replies. This site is every vBulletin customers resource/tool so even if you can't download modifications as a cloud or trial user the two forums you require are open.
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  #14  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 13:49
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BirdOPrey5 BirdOPrey5 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by akz645 View Post
http://www.vbulletin.com/en/vb4-trial/
1) How long does trail last?
VB4 Trial is 24 hours. VB5 trial is 72 hours.

2) Once the trail period is over, what happens?
It gets deleted.

3) Can they ask for an extension?
You can ask but we can't always accommodate. You can always make a new trial though once your old one expires.

4) Can trail users download mods?
5) Can trail users view codes?
No to both.

For 4 and 5: I think they should be allowed to do both, if they can't already.
Because the source code is visible any restrictions put in place for a trial/demo could be easily circumvented so there will never see VB4 or VB5 as a trial you can download. The trial will only be available on VB's demo servers.

Maybe they should pay a small fee to download mods for X days/ however long their trail version has left? I don't think they should be allowed to get support/post on the forum though, aside from the pre-sale section & wherever else unlicensed members can currently post on this website.
If they can't legitimately download mods without having to pay the full fee, they're pretty much forced to use warez websites if they want to test a mod. I've also seen warez sites charge (premium) to download mods and to get priority support for somebody else to download for them.
The fee to download mods is to purchase a vBulletin license. If you don't have a license you have no business downloading mods. Selling a low price way to get mods only encourages piracy of the main product.

http://www.vbulletin.com/en/vbulletin-cloud/
I'd like to ask about vbulletin cloud too.
3) Can you install mods on that?
4) Are you given a FTP account?
You cannot install mods. You do not get an FTP account. See a feature comparison: http://www.vbulletin.com/en/vbcloud-features

Can't vbulletin make a disclaimer, saying whatever mods is posted on this website, will remain on this website indefinitely.
Therefore members who post modifications have to agree to those terms?
Hence vbulletin would have the right to never remove modifications that have been posted, if they don't want to.

P.S: Really sorry if this question has been asked before.
I tried searching but I couldn't find the answer to all these questions and I'm unsure what your latest terms and conditions are on this matter.
You are free to your opinion, but it isn't going to happen here.


Originally Posted by ozzy47 View Post
There would be no reason to let cloud users access to mods, as they can not use them anyway.
You know I'm not sure if they can or not. There is some reason to have access, I have directed vBCloud customers here to get BB Codes and look at template edits. I hope they do have access- no one ever wrote back saying they couldn't see what I told them to look at.

Originally Posted by ozzy47 View Post
But that is a mute point. The author of the mod owns the code, and shares it here freely. If they no longer want it available on here, that is their decision. No one has their right to publish their content without consent.
The phrase is "a moot point."
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  #15  
Old 11 Sep 2015, 15:21
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Paul M Paul M is offline
 
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Originally Posted by akz645 View Post
They wouldn't be publishing it.
They'd only be maintaining it/ not allowing you to remove it.
You as the owner would be the one who has published it, agreeing to the terms and conditions.

Under UK or US law, can you point me to a law that states otherwise?
There is no need to point to anything.
No such conditions will ever be implemented.

If someone asks for their mod to be removed, we will remove it. There is nothing more to discuss on this.


Originally Posted by akz645 View Post
4) Can trail users download mods?
5) Can trail users view codes?
For 4 and 5: I think they should be allowed to do both, if they can't already.
You cannot do either, and thats not going to change either.
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